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The N900 is now 15 years old! (9)
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2011-09-02
, 14:28
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Posts: 915 |
Thanked: 3,209 times |
Joined on Jan 2011
@ Germany
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#2392
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Originally Posted by oldpmaguy
Yes! That's the right way to do it.
So to "replace the image", I just re-copied the extracted image that I had saved on my computer HDD, over the existing image on the SD card.
That should be a "clean install", yes?
Originally Posted by oldpmaguy
No, you shouldn't see that icon anymore. What yu observe seems strange.
So just to be clear - should I still be seeing an app in EasyDebian's menu list that I installed myself, even after I copied the original extracted image over the current, messed up/modified one on my SD card?
Could you please have a look at the folder
Code:
/usr/share/applications
Originally Posted by oldpmaguy
You're inexperienced. There's nothing wrong with that. No need to apologize.
Sorry to be such a dweeb and repeat myself like this ^_^.
Originally Posted by oldpmaguy
Don't worry, I'm by no means an "official" Easy Debian developer. My personal changes won't affect you unless you repeat them.
Also, about your comment about keeping or losing the audio, I vote to KEEP IT! I am realy looking forward to experimenting with audio and video recording/playing/editing apps on EasyDebian, and it would be a major loss to lose audio completely. Please at least keep available to the users a functioning version of EasyDebian that retains audio!
The problem with sound is that the Sueeze version of the sound server "jackd" seems to be incompatible with the version used in Maemo which means that they can't communicate with each other. With my current knowledge I wouldn't even know where to begin to look for a solution without doing mayor changes to the stock Squeeze system (which I want to avoid).
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2011-09-02
, 19:47
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Moderator |
Posts: 7,109 |
Thanked: 8,820 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Vancouver, BC, Canada
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#2393
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Originally Posted by mscion
The first big hurdle is that the Aegis platform security completely blocks all attempts to chroot into my mounted image. We have found a hackish workaround (thanks to javispedro) that will disable the security until a reboot, but the long-term solution will have to be a new open kernel.
Anyone can chime in here but I was wondering if qole would comment on or give his prognosis concerning the future of Easy Debian on N9.
Also, if anyone could comment on the main technical/software hurdles for developing Easy Debian on androids that would, I think, be of interest to many.
Thanks.
But my biggest problem right now is that I am infatuated with my HP TouchPad and WebOS, so I'm spending a lot of time there...
__________________
qole.org --- twitter --- Easy Debian wiki page
Please don't send me a private message, post to the appropriate thread.
Thank you all for your donations!
qole.org --- twitter --- Easy Debian wiki page
Please don't send me a private message, post to the appropriate thread.
Thank you all for your donations!
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2011-09-03
, 11:22
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Posts: 5,028 |
Thanked: 8,613 times |
Joined on Mar 2011
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#2394
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Originally Posted by qole
Isn't it a pure waste of time, from a long-term development perspective?
We have found a hackish workaround (thanks to javispedro) that will disable the security until a reboot, but the long-term solution will have to be a new open kernel.
Like saving money to buy a new Ferrari, just to go full-speed into dead-end street and blow it @ wall?Sorry for off-topic, just asking
__________________
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
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N900's HDMI-Out
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Camera cover MOD
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Measure battery's real capacity on-device
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TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
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Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
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N900's HDMI-Out
-
Camera cover MOD
-
Measure battery's real capacity on-device
-
TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
-
Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
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2011-09-03
, 16:21
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Moderator |
Posts: 7,109 |
Thanked: 8,820 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Vancouver, BC, Canada
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#2395
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Why is it like driving a Ferrari into a wall? The fact a device is "the last of its kind" does not make it any less cool, to me!
__________________
qole.org --- twitter --- Easy Debian wiki page
Please don't send me a private message, post to the appropriate thread.
Thank you all for your donations!
qole.org --- twitter --- Easy Debian wiki page
Please don't send me a private message, post to the appropriate thread.
Thank you all for your donations!
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2011-09-03
, 18:38
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Posts: 5,028 |
Thanked: 8,613 times |
Joined on Mar 2011
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#2396
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By Ferrari, I was referring to cumulative skill of talented developers wasting time with Nokia gadget phone. As for wall, I was referring to it being Meego/Maemo/whatsnot hybrid, with 100% closed UI. N950 are limited to "chosen ones", and N9 is far from what I call "cool", in means of hardware/design.
As for long time development, I thought about it not helping in establishing most Open and powerful mobile linux distribution, governed by the community for community
At the same time, things like CordiaHD, CSSU or Meego CE could use some helping, developing hands, but many devs prefer to play with "toys" rented from Nokia (N950) or shiny, overpriced gadget (N9 in near future).
Of course, everyone is free to do as she/he please, with her/his time. Just saying
As for long time development, I thought about it not helping in establishing most Open and powerful mobile linux distribution, governed by the community for community
At the same time, things like CordiaHD, CSSU or Meego CE could use some helping, developing hands, but many devs prefer to play with "toys" rented from Nokia (N950) or shiny, overpriced gadget (N9 in near future).
Of course, everyone is free to do as she/he please, with her/his time. Just saying
__________________
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
-
N900's HDMI-Out
-
Camera cover MOD
-
Measure battery's real capacity on-device
-
TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
-
Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
-
N900's HDMI-Out
-
Camera cover MOD
-
Measure battery's real capacity on-device
-
TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
-
Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
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2011-09-03
, 22:50
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Posts: 37 |
Thanked: 3 times |
Joined on Jan 2011
@ Polska
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#2397
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The problem was with EXTKBD. There are many additional entries for other keyboards. After changing xkb debian easy to clean and add a modified rx-51 is OK.
**There is still a small problem, usb keyboard in maemo works fine, but the easy debian clones N900 keyboard. Numeric keys do not work, the principles of writing as the N900
Does anyone know how to change it
Thank you and best regards
**There is still a small problem, usb keyboard in maemo works fine, but the easy debian clones N900 keyboard. Numeric keys do not work, the principles of writing as the N900
Does anyone know how to change it
Thank you and best regards
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2011-09-04
, 20:36
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Posts: 915 |
Thanked: 3,209 times |
Joined on Jan 2011
@ Germany
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#2398
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@istota:
In principle it should be sufficient to load another keyboard layout. If you have a look at the rx-51 configuration file you'll find that modifying it is pretty simple (nevertheless make a backup!). Just create a new "keyboard layout" or change an existing one to match your USB keyboard. After doing that getting your USB keyboard to work properly in Easy Debian should be as simple as changing the keyboard layout (in Easy Debian, not in Maemo).
However this is only theoretical since I've never tried it. I'm not sure if the different geometry (e.g. number of key rows) would cause any trouble.
In principle it should be sufficient to load another keyboard layout. If you have a look at the rx-51 configuration file you'll find that modifying it is pretty simple (nevertheless make a backup!). Just create a new "keyboard layout" or change an existing one to match your USB keyboard. After doing that getting your USB keyboard to work properly in Easy Debian should be as simple as changing the keyboard layout (in Easy Debian, not in Maemo).
However this is only theoretical since I've never tried it. I'm not sure if the different geometry (e.g. number of key rows) would cause any trouble.
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2011-09-05
, 20:22
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Posts: 915 |
Thanked: 3,209 times |
Joined on Jan 2011
@ Germany
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#2399
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Thanks to qole's statements here [1] I downgraded pulseaudio to Lenny and sound now works in my otherwise pure Squeeze Easy Debian.
To be precise I downgraded the following packages:
While I'm sure the first 3 are necessary to make sound work again I'm not sure about the last 3. (Maybe) I will investigate that later.
Unfortunately I now have some broken packages. To be precise, these ones:
But I do have sound. The broken mplayer plays ogg and mp3 just fine. However I have problems with mpc. It's played but it doesn't sound right. I haven't fully understood mplayer's dependencies regarding musepack.
Of course keeping those broken packages is not a solution. The dirty solution would be to create some dummy packages that solve these dependencies but the clean and therefore best solution would be to have a more recent and properly working pulseaudio in Maemo so that Easy Debian could use the Squeeze packages. Does anybody know if there's any reasonable chance to update Maemo's pulseaudio?
Nevertheless I only consider this to be a proof of concept since Easy Debian couldn't bring any multimedia features for me that Maemo doesn't.
side node 1:
I decided not to bother with the ctrl press problem anymore. I have settled with the circumstance to press ctrl after returning to Easy Debian when coming from another window.
side note 2:
I also decided to have a look at the gconf2 problems although they don't seem to affect me. Therefore I'd appreciate it if somebody could tell me a more lightweight program than LO that causes trouble but if there is none I'll also install that heavy monster again.
In any case I'd like to have a clear test scenario: What should I do in LO and what should I look for? I haven't really used L/OO for 3 or 4 years so I'm not up to date.
btw: Abiword and Gnumeric seem to work fine under Squeeze. I don't use them enough on the N900 to be able to say that for sure but I didn't notice any obvious problems.
[1] http://forums.internettablettalk.com...ad.php?t=36936
Edit:
I just compared the source code of the pulseaudio versions from Lenny and Squeeze. Bah! What a mess! I tried to find where this protocol error message comes from. It's in pulsecore/protocoal_native.c.
But unfortunately the function itself doesn't provide much information:
(Lenny version; the Squeeze version looks a bit different due to changed variable names but the functionality stays the same)
And it could be called like a hundred times within that file. It's a shame that the error message isn't more verbose about where the error came from exactly. There seem to have been numerous protocol changes between version 0.9.11 and 15 but none after 15 - which would be interesting due to the observation that something must have broken between 0.9.15 and 19 (not 21; found that in an e-mail archive involving pulseaudio on the N900 and an Ubuntu package).
client-ext.c isn't even in pulseaudio. I don't know yet where it is but since downgrading pulseaudio is sufficient to get sound I guess we don't have to consider client-ext.c here.
Last edited by sulu; 2011-09-06 at 10:24.
To be precise I downgraded the following packages:
Code:
pulseaudio libpulse0 libpulse-mainloop-glib0 paman pulseaudio-esound-compat pulseaudio-module-x11
Unfortunately I now have some broken packages. To be precise, these ones:
Code:
gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio libasound2-plugins libpulse-browse0 mplayer pavucontrol pulseaudio-utils xmms2-plugin-pulse
But I do have sound. The broken mplayer plays ogg and mp3 just fine. However I have problems with mpc. It's played but it doesn't sound right. I haven't fully understood mplayer's dependencies regarding musepack.
Of course keeping those broken packages is not a solution. The dirty solution would be to create some dummy packages that solve these dependencies but the clean and therefore best solution would be to have a more recent and properly working pulseaudio in Maemo so that Easy Debian could use the Squeeze packages. Does anybody know if there's any reasonable chance to update Maemo's pulseaudio?
Nevertheless I only consider this to be a proof of concept since Easy Debian couldn't bring any multimedia features for me that Maemo doesn't.
side node 1:
I decided not to bother with the ctrl press problem anymore. I have settled with the circumstance to press ctrl after returning to Easy Debian when coming from another window.
side note 2:
I also decided to have a look at the gconf2 problems although they don't seem to affect me. Therefore I'd appreciate it if somebody could tell me a more lightweight program than LO that causes trouble but if there is none I'll also install that heavy monster again.
In any case I'd like to have a clear test scenario: What should I do in LO and what should I look for? I haven't really used L/OO for 3 or 4 years so I'm not up to date.
btw: Abiword and Gnumeric seem to work fine under Squeeze. I don't use them enough on the N900 to be able to say that for sure but I didn't notice any obvious problems.
[1] http://forums.internettablettalk.com...ad.php?t=36936
Edit:
I just compared the source code of the pulseaudio versions from Lenny and Squeeze. Bah! What a mess! I tried to find where this protocol error message comes from. It's in pulsecore/protocoal_native.c.
But unfortunately the function itself doesn't provide much information:
Code:
static void protocol_error(connection *c) {
pa_log("protocol error, kicking client");
connection_unlink(c);
}
And it could be called like a hundred times within that file. It's a shame that the error message isn't more verbose about where the error came from exactly. There seem to have been numerous protocol changes between version 0.9.11 and 15 but none after 15 - which would be interesting due to the observation that something must have broken between 0.9.15 and 19 (not 21; found that in an e-mail archive involving pulseaudio on the N900 and an Ubuntu package).
client-ext.c isn't even in pulseaudio. I don't know yet where it is but since downgrading pulseaudio is sufficient to get sound I guess we don't have to consider client-ext.c here.
Last edited by sulu; 2011-09-06 at 10:24.
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2011-09-06
, 18:22
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Posts: 915 |
Thanked: 3,209 times |
Joined on Jan 2011
@ Germany
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#2400
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It seems like I'm not the first one to investigate this pulseaudio problem.
There seem to have been at least two clever guys who dealt with it earlier:
http://lists.freedesktop.org/archive...ne/010256.html
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp...o.general/9797
Do the names of the people who opened these discussions mean something to anybody here? I'd like to know if there was any progress I might have missed.
And there is an old Debian bug report dealing not with the same but a similar protocol version problem:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=458556
The proposed solution was to either use or at least report an earlier protocol version depending on the server version.
There's even a patch to do that which is already implemented but unfortunately it's hard-coded to check for version 12:
http://www.pulseaudio.org/attachment...nnection.patch
If I get that right we'd need this check to be variable so we could pass some sort of parameter to pulseaudio in Easy Debian to use an older version that could communicate with the broken Maemo pulseaudio.
Can somebody please have a look at the source code and the patch and tell me if my assumption is right that this patch should even be useful to solve the problem I'm facing?
There seem to have been at least two clever guys who dealt with it earlier:
http://lists.freedesktop.org/archive...ne/010256.html
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp...o.general/9797
Do the names of the people who opened these discussions mean something to anybody here? I'd like to know if there was any progress I might have missed.
And there is an old Debian bug report dealing not with the same but a similar protocol version problem:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=458556
The proposed solution was to either use or at least report an earlier protocol version depending on the server version.
There's even a patch to do that which is already implemented but unfortunately it's hard-coded to check for version 12:
http://www.pulseaudio.org/attachment...nnection.patch
If I get that right we'd need this check to be variable so we could pass some sort of parameter to pulseaudio in Easy Debian to use an older version that could communicate with the broken Maemo pulseaudio.
Can somebody please have a look at the source code and the patch and tell me if my assumption is right that this patch should even be useful to solve the problem I'm facing?
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| Tags |
| beta, debian, easy debian, extras-devel, fremantle, i <3 qole, squeeze |
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All times are GMT. The time now is 22:41.
I do have both the compressed image and the extracted image on the same partition, my SD card. But as I said, I did the extraction on my computer, and then copied the extracted image back on to the SD card.
So to "replace the image", I just re-copied the extracted image that I had saved on my computer HDD, over the existing image on the SD card.
That should be a "clean install", yes? I do use the unmount icon (I discovered it the hard way after EasyDebian's music player kept playing even after I had closed the entire EasyDebian desktop application...).
So just to be clear - should I still be seeing an app in EasyDebian's menu list that I installed myself, even after I copied the original extracted image over the current, messed up/modified one on my SD card? Because I am seeing such a shortcut remaining - this is what makes me think I didn't do the "clean install" correctly.
Sorry to be such a dweeb and repeat myself like this ^_^.
Also, about your comment about keeping or losing the audio, I vote to KEEP IT! I am realy looking forward to experimenting with audio and video recording/playing/editing apps on EasyDebian, and it would be a major loss to lose audio completely. Please at least keep available to the users a functioning version of EasyDebian that retains audio!
Thanks again.
N900.... thick like computer