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ericsson is offline ericsson
2011-03-03 , 17:38
Banned | Posts: 974 | Thanked: 622 times | Joined on Oct 2010
#241
Originally Posted by 9000 View Post
My reply to you was to respond to your statement "The only success Linux has had is on Android" only, and I did also mention the success of Linux in servers market. I hope these figures would add up to your list of "Linux's successful stories".

I might not be the best person to defend Linux's success in embedded world, but I could still tell from my years of experience on OEM embedded products manufacturing, Linux is very successful these years, but still not the most successful in term of adoptions and market peneration.



The most successful OS of all in embedded world is definitely not Nokia's S40. What is your second guess?

While you metioned RTOS, Symbian is as much a RTOS as WinCE. A Linux distro RTLinux has realtime turnaround time that these two could not compare; but still, they're fine for non-critical RT application area like mobile phone.

Just little information for your thought. ^^

EDIT: to accurately quote and respond to exactly what you said in order to avoid misleading you in any way. ^^
I don't know of any other OS that is currently installed on more devices than S40, or the core running S40 to be precise whatever that is.
 
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Copernicus is offline Copernicus
2011-03-03 , 17:41
Posts: 1,986 | Thanked: 7,698 times | Joined on Dec 2010 @ Dayton, Ohio
#242
Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt View Post
I think you misunderstood my post. I'm saying that interacting with the iOS UI is quite far removed from a POSIX compliant OS like Unix. Comparatively, something with heavy CLI requirement would be closer.
Honestly, still confused here. Point one: today's Unix user need never touch a command line. Most OS X users don't even know what "bash" is.

Point two: POSIX is merely a standard describing one method for how to interact with an OS. You can build an OS to be POSIX-compliant without forcing the user to use the OS in that way. For example, Windows is POSIX-compliant via Microsoft's Interix package.

Point three: both iOS and OS X run on top of the Mach kernel. iOS may have a radically different interface than you'd expect from other flavors of Unix, but somewhere deep underneath there, the heart of a Unix system is beating...
 

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9000 is offline 9000
2011-03-03 , 17:46
Posts: 1,425 | Thanked: 983 times | Joined on May 2010 @ Hong Kong
#243
Originally Posted by ericsson View Post
I don't know of any other OS that is currently installed on more devices than S40, or the core running S40 to be precise whatever that is.
That's normal. Smartphone is just contributing to a small portion of the entire embedded system world, in terms of market coverage and revenue.

I know you're in fact specifically referring to smartphone market, but since you mentioned embedded systems in general...
 
ericsson is offline ericsson
2011-03-03 , 17:51
Banned | Posts: 974 | Thanked: 622 times | Joined on Oct 2010
#244
Originally Posted by 9000 View Post
That's normal. Smartphone is just contributing to a small portion of the entire embedded system world, in terms of market coverage and revenue.

I know you're in fact specifically referring to smartphone market, but since you mentioned embedded systems in general...
I'm not sure what you mean. S40 is not a smartphone OS, it is the OS that is installed on most current Nokia dumbphones. It is an RTOS of some sort, referred to as "Nokia OS".
 
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Capt'n Corrupt is offline Capt'n Corrupt
2011-03-03 , 17:57
Posts: 3,524 | Thanked: 2,958 times | Joined on Oct 2007 @ Delta Quadrant
#245
Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
Honestly, still confused here. Point one: today's Unix user need never touch a command line. Most OS X users don't even know what "bash" is.

Point two: POSIX is merely a standard describing one method for how to interact with an OS. You can build an OS to be POSIX-compliant without forcing the user to use the OS in that way. For example, Windows is POSIX-compliant via Microsoft's Interix package.

Point three: both iOS and OS X run on top of the Mach kernel. iOS may have a radically different interface than you'd expect from other flavors of Unix, but somewhere deep underneath there, the heart of a Unix system is beating...
Quite a bit of assertions for someone that is confused. Generally, individuals ask questions for clarification . But I can appreciate that you're trying to win an argument.

I'm not sure I can simplify this further, but I will try:

Yes, Unix is beneath iOS. But the user interface is certainly not Unix, is quite far removed from it, and heavily tied to iOS. So saying that people are 'learning unix' takes a bit more than a stretch. Put another way: using iOS would not make you more proficient with Open Solaris, nor would it with Ubuntu, or even the common Unix denominator between these OSs.

So I'd say confidently, that using iOS is learning how to use iOS. I would raise the same arguments for Ubuntu, but since the CLI is available, and the FS is exponsed (users/permissions/etc), etc, I would say that there's a degree *more* 'Unix learning' there, than with iOS.
 

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Copernicus is offline Copernicus
2011-03-03 , 18:24
Posts: 1,986 | Thanked: 7,698 times | Joined on Dec 2010 @ Dayton, Ohio
#246
Aha, now I understand! We differ in our definition of what "Unix" is. Thank you for the clarification.

Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt View Post
Yes, Unix is beneath iOS. But the user interface is certainly not Unix, is quite far removed from it, and heavily tied to iOS.
Personally, I tend to tie the concept of "Unix" much closer to the kernel than you do. Back in the good old PDP-11 days, when Unix first appeared, the shell, editors, compilers, and other utilities bundled with the OS were just that: bundled with the OS, not actually part of it. Unix has always had a plethora of command line shells, and when GUIs became popular, a whole bunch of them too; so, I've never personally gotten comfortable with saying that any particular shell or GUI is the true "Unix" user interface.

So, from my point of view, the iOS GUI is just as much a Unix interface as the OS X GUI is. (Even if it does lack many of my favorite features.)

Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt View Post
So saying that people are 'learning unix' takes a bit more than a stretch. Put another way: using iOS would not make you more proficient with Open Solaris, nor would it with Ubuntu, or even the common Unix denominator between these OSs.
Similarly, using Windows 7 doesn't necessarily mean you'd do well using Windows 3.1, or DOS, or Interix for that matter. Just because two operating systems share some particular heritage with one another doesn't mean that their interfaces need to be in any way similar.

Again, though, this is using my own definition of what an operating system is. If you believe that the user interface is the operating system, then yeah, neither iOS nor OS X are truly "Unix".
 

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Capt'n Corrupt is offline Capt'n Corrupt
2011-03-03 , 18:36
Posts: 3,524 | Thanked: 2,958 times | Joined on Oct 2007 @ Delta Quadrant
#247
Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
Aha, now I understand! We differ in our definition of what "Unix" is. Thank you for the clarification.
It generally comes down to semantics, nay?

I don't think that the UI is the OS, but part of it. As such, I would say that there are many spatially significant heritage trees of OSs, with degrees of compatibility, structure, interface, similarity, etc, between each node. The further down (or up) you move, the more different the OS becomes for that characteristic to the reference node. Thus, I have found that absolutes don't jive well with OS classification -- which is why it is generally a lively topic of debate. This is the very reason I stick to 'degrees of similarity' in one area or another.

I believe the whole idea of classifying OSs, is like classifying humans -- each case has a multitude of differing characteristics, and thus loses relevance as an activity, unless you're considering a very narrow characteristic.

I remember getting nailed to the wall when I suggested that Android was Linux.... I don't do that anymore
 

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daperl is offline daperl
2011-03-03 , 18:59
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#248
Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
If you believe that the user interface is the operating system, then yeah, neither iOS nor OS X are truly "Unix".
Okay, I promise, I'll stop after this, but OS X is the only common desktop OS that is UNIX.

At all times, I have 2 Terminals open with 3 tabs each.

X, su, sudo, vi, a terminal and bash (the default shell) come pre-installed and pre-configured on every Mac.

EDIT:

As does ssh, sshd, scp.
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Last edited by daperl; 2011-03-03 at 19:02.
 
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rm42 is offline rm42
2011-03-03 , 19:00
Posts: 963 | Thanked: 626 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Connecticut, USA
#249
Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt View Post
I remember getting nailed to the wall when I suggested that Android was Linux.... I don't do that anymore
Android is as much Linux as Ubuntu.
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rm42 is offline rm42
2011-03-03 , 19:22
Posts: 963 | Thanked: 626 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Connecticut, USA
#250
More on the future of your Windows Phone.

http://bsdly.blogspot.com/2011/02/pr...microsoft.html

While not specifically about Windows Phone, it is about how Microsoft handles email. And therefore what you can expect to have on your future Windows Phone.
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