I'm not concerned about software; I know I will have good choices. I'm concerned about hardware form factor and price. The reason I responded to UI comments is because they seam to be tightly coupled to some future hardware that I suspect will be less to my liking. Let's be honest, I could probably survive with an iPod touch; I love my mac mini for what it is. Never the less, an iPod touch will always be a distant 2nd choice if I have an n800 within my grasp. But if Nokia f*cks up the next round of hardware like they did with the n810 (changes and price), a $229 iPod touch or a $330 Pandora become devices I would have to consider. Those are the facts. And none of your market place this, business segment that, will change them.

I'm well served by N810 and doubt that I's consider a replacement for perhaps years. I do however hope that my N810 will be able to run the "Maemo 5" OS in keeping with the backward compatibility that Linux has been able to provide on the PC and other platforms. If it does I'll be very inclined to consider a Nokia replacement for the N810 when that time comes. If not I'd look real hard at Android on whatever platforms it's supported on. I want a pocketable solution that isn't artificially limited by cell network providors like AT&T or vendors like Apple.

That is exactly why Nokia has to differentiate. The Pandora ships soon and provide a certain price for performance ratio. Nokia provides their.

For those people who said buttons are left out because of cost, and the more the better, I found a perfect Christmas present.

With the rise & popularity of the netbook there is a lot of competition on the upper segment; so make use of the unique features of the device: size, weight, usability, Maemo/Hildon, community, touch screen, ...

If I wanted a laptop I would have gotten one.
I wanted a touchscreen handheld.

Yes, I know. But not everyone feels that way. So you lose (or perhaps lost) some folks to that industry. On the other side you have the mobile phone industry putting more and more features in their handhelds. Some of those nettop have touchscreen, some of those mobile phones have touchscreen. Its getting more and more popular.

In the other thread you mention camera. Now think more resources, HS*PA. GPS. With all these options together this device is like a swiss army knife. And certain applications add a lot of value to the device because they are user-friendly. In other words, even a normal person who otherwise uses Windows and eats bacon will be able to use such powerful swiss army knife.

If you'd compare it to other embedded devices these also have potentions but 1) they run Windows 2a) they have low resources; e.g. TomTom (do run Linux) or 2b) proprietary firmware (digicams, DAPs).

While a TomTom is arguably a better GPS device than a N810 a swiss army knife includes several features good enough for being included but not the best tool for the best job.

In other words instead of copying the programs laptops run have the courage to use your own strengths and use that as a starting point.

All this while still allowing professionals to hack on the device the way they want to but the default settings are aimed at the average, new user. That goes for most devices except those targetted specifically for hackers... (DIY kits etc...) For example to assemble a TB303 clone you gotta have quite some soldering skills.

If I wanted an iPod Touch, I would have gotten one.

I wanted a small laptop. The N800/N810 is the smallest I'm aware of.

To lcuk: The page 27 of this thread doesn't look like the right place to start discussing about Fremantle's API compatibility. Nor the right time either imo. Let's discuss in front of a real API once it is published. Note also that by having an alpha release months before any final release we (all) have more time to see the impact of those changes and attempt to fix something if it's utterly wrong.

Ah well, but then it's clear that all this thread is based on pure speculation since no hardware announcements or plans have been disclosed around Maemo.

You are inside this market place this, business segment that just as much as me and anybody else in this thread. Your words of buying somewhere else if Nokia doesn't fulfill your interests are a good and very practical example. You said that Nokia had probably no idea about users like you and I'm just trying to say that probably Nokia does know, and a lot.

I'm not trying to convince you, just attempting to explain how these things work. You have very good points but then you kind of loose them making too simplistic or plain wrong statements.

The n810 upsetting some people while satisfying some more is also a fact, by the way. Like there was people saying that the 770 was way better than the N800. You might be among those upset, but you can't deny that there has been progress through the 770, N800 and N810 hardware. I have no reasons to think this progress will be stalled.

I was away for a week and browsing this forum on the tablet is such a chore that I did not do it (yes, I know that you can change the style of the forum). Maybe there is some knowledge to be gained here, but I'd rather talk about something else...


This discussion has evolved in a different direction than the one I had intended (nothing wrong with that, this is a forum). It seems to have turned into a discussion on "how do I want the next tablet UI to be like?".

My question was rather: "what will people do on the Internet with their mobile devices in two years?". This is why I cited the iPhone (and the iPod touch, which everyone forgets about). I don't particularly like the iPhone and I did not buy one, but it is changing the market.


Maybe I should give my vision of the market (derived from casual observations, this is why I would like other people's opinion).


Two years ago, the big thing were camera phones. You say people taking pictures with their phones on holiday all over the place. This is gone, people have reverted to digital cameras.

In China, a year to 6 months ago, Windows mobile was a big thing. I have not understood why.

One big thing at present in arabic countries is to use your phone as a getto blaster. Nokia has a lot of this market, their phones put out an impressive sound for their volume. I have even seen phones with integrated stereo speakers. Note that the second series of the iPod touch has an integrated speaker now, apparently Apple also has got the idea that people do not always like to use phones (Apple is generally not present in third world countries, however. Check were the iTunes store is available.).



A very new use for portable devices that is emerging is Internet browsing and e-mail. This is the result of the iPhone. Today, I see iPhones everywhere. I also see kids with iPods touch. And I see those people near free wifi stations. I also people with symbian phones near these wifi stations, which was not the case a year ago.

So apparently, since the iPhone, a large number of people have started to realise the use of free wifi access points. And this is exactly the market that the N800 was chasing a year ago, and largely failed. I don't know why.

Another important aspect is that the iPhone is changing the mobile Internet. Youtube has a special iPhone site and Youtube is a major player. How does that impact the future of maemo devices? Why can't we access this mobile site, which would be much better for our needs? I uses open standards (h.264), but avoids connection of unapproved devices. OTOH, the N810 connects to Youtube using flash, which is a proprietary standard, but open to unapproved devices. Suddenly, the age long discussion open versus proprietary standards takes a new, unexpected turn.


So these are the questions I ponder:
-what space is there for a wifi tablet device in this changed landscape? Before you answer, please realise that Apple (yes, again) has a wifi-only tablet in the form of the iPod touch, and that they sell it in large enough number for me to see some used, while I never see any other N810 than the ones I bought.
-what space is there for software development in a market changed by the iTunes store? There aren't that many developers and a relatively large number are attracted to the iTunes business model and ease of use of Apple development tools. I think that this will mostly impact windows mobile and symbian however.
-how is the new mobile Internet changing the game? On the one hand, we have google which developed a business-like suite which required to be always online (and is scrambling to change that), on the other hand we have a wealth of new iPhone only sites. This target is moving, and it is moving fast. And this is exactly the opposite that the N800 and similar devices were aiming: they tried to cram a web experience designed for the desktop into an underpowered handheld device. Apple took the problem by the other end and tried to design a web adapted to their underpowered handheld devices... and they leave the competition out.

You can't answer any of those questions just by yourself. I am not asking your opinion as technical geeks. The only way to form an idea is to go out, observe what the masses are doing, talk with people around you, find out what they like and do not like, etc... In the end, the market is a number game.

So it seems this market is already saturated.

Netbooks, OTOH, seem to do quite well.

You're talking about the mass market. The mass market is a difficult territory: Low margins, high competition, low quality in the end.
I'm working for a large Telco. We have to cater the mass market, but the interesting business is in the niches nobody else could fill: Other companies are not large enough to develop niche products as a side-line. We can and customers pay real money for them.

Stop thinking mass-market only.

I view the tablet a little differently. I want a pocketable constant companion. Multimedia is useful (creation and consumption), Internet related communication is a necessity but so is basic PIM with a touch of CRM that synchronizes with desktop and web applications. All this should seemlessly intrgrate. Today marketly is all to likely to define products by putting them into function boxes without overlap. Wanted features are deleted in order to not pirate market share from other products manufactured by the vender. The Windows pocket PC is an extreme example. The Nokia Internet Tablets is a little guilty as well but the fortunate choice of Linux and the open source community filled in many of the holes that Nokia left out. It makes sense to market new products to predisposed niches but that doesn't mean that the application potential should be designed out of the picture. Touch and gestures have great potential but let's not limit functionality by force fitting the UI technique on functions it may not be well suited to.