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2011-07-28
, 05:19
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#2742
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Originally Posted by jalyst
Change the Harmattan UI then.
How was the notion betrayed from Maemo --> MeeGo?
Are you trying suggest Android is as open as Maemo/MeeGo?
They're both not fully open in a black/white view.
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2011-07-28
, 05:29
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#2743
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Originally Posted by wmarone
I don't see how it's "thicker"...
They're shipping Maemo 6, effectively, with a even thicker slathering of closed source this time: we can't even modify how the desktop operates, let alone some of the system control daemons (dsme, etc.)
Certainly a greater step backwards for Nokia, but I can't hold them to anything they said before at this point. I just assume the worst from them now.
The only way we can surmise that beyond doubt, is when we have it in our hands for some time.
The only area that could be argued -at this early stage- as "thicker", is maybe the front-end/UX.
But if one reads Kate Alhola's latest thread/blog posts, it's not as big an issue as everyone assumes.
Android, in terms of source availability, is (well, minus Honeycomb but let's not go there). It's not as open in terms of upper level participation and lacks the GPL clauses that keep MeeGo open.
Last edited by jalyst; 2011-07-28 at 05:37.
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2011-07-28
, 05:34
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#2744
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Originally Posted by gerbick
Aha but we can & will
Change the Harmattan UI then.
Never said that. But saying one is open, one isn't and both have bits that are closed off does not equate to "open" by any standards. "More open" is just a way to say "not fully open"... which both aren't. Splitting hairs about which is more open in terms of percentages therein is just a fool's endeavor. They're both not fully open in a black/white view.
AlI I care about is assessing both environments* on their own merits.
*their 'ecosystem' factors-in far less for me.
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2011-07-28
, 05:49
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#2745
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Originally Posted by jalyst
It's closed. How will you? And I don't mean replacing it. I mean actually alter Harmattan directly.
Aha but we can & will
I've never cared for the argument...
AlI I care about is assessing both environments* on their own merits.
*their 'ecosystem' factors-in far less for me.
This whole thing about Maemo being open was ********. It was mostly open. Not fully open. Sure, it's quite easy to say it doesn't really matter, but once those closed bits start to fall into disrepair because it cannot be worked around or replaced easily, then it starts to matter. And that's what we're starting to see with the N900/Maemo 5. Soon... we'll probably see that with Maemo 6/Harmattan due mostly to how things may play out in that version in regards to support from Nokia.
This whole thing about it being open or not mattering isn't what was being boasted around these parts at all. Maemo was open. It was the most open. It's mostly open. It's somewhat open... each month it was a newer, lower qualifier attached to it and the earlier vitriol attached to "<insert anything other than Maemo here> sucks because it's not as open as Maemo" wasn't warranted.
Why? Because Maemo was just as closed. Irony? Yes. Do I care? Not really. But I'm merely pointing it out.
MeeGo 1.2 is open. Harmattan isn't. Android isn't. The rest boils down to what I'd use to make up my mind on what I'll pick to have around me in the future.
Ecosystem, support, fancy looking device, because I like the way it's spelled. Whatever. I just don't like people promoting falsehoods like they're facts. Maemo ain't open 100% - be it drivers or important **** that is still classed as WONTFIX to this day and will not be fixed or worked around.
It's that simple. Not open, it'll mean that I'll have to look at obsolescence sooner than I'd like on important bits. As a consumer, I feel it's more honest to say what is and what isn't closed.
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2011-07-28
, 05:56
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#2746
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Originally Posted by daperl
Thanks mate, only mentions 1271 & 1273, no mention of 1271L or 1273L.
I can't give you a dmesg from an n9, but here's the beginning of one from an n950:
So I guess it's safe to assume (at least for the N950) that the radio used is from the 1271/3 family.
And it's not the "L", or BT4.0 variant...
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2011-07-28
, 06:07
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#2747
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Originally Posted by jalyst
Nokia have already said in release docs that N950 supports BT2 and N9 supports BT4 in hardware.
Thanks mate, only mentions 1271 & 1273, no mention of 1271L or 1273L.
So I guess it's safe to assume (at least for the N950) that the radio used is from the 1271/3 family.
And it's not the "L", or BT4.0 variant...
It's safe to say the N950 has 1271/3 and N9 has 1271/3L.
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2011-07-28
, 06:11
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#2748
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Originally Posted by gerbick
As I said, look for Kate's posts!
It's closed. How will you? And I don't mean replacing it. I mean actually alter Harmattan directly.
Originally Posted by gerbick
I wasn't suggesting you're using the 'ecosystem' mantra.
I never said anything about ecosystem. Allow me to say this simply, but rather harshly (not directed towards you)... <SNIP>
Last edited by jalyst; 2011-07-28 at 06:13.
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2011-07-28
, 06:12
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#2749
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Originally Posted by recluse
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=131
Nokia have already said in release docs that N950 supports BT2 and N9 supports BT4 in hardware.
It's safe to say the N950 has 1271/3 and N9 has 1271/3L.
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2011-07-28
, 06:28
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@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#2750
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Originally Posted by gerbick
Case in point... let the evidence show...
I never said anything about ecosystem. Allow me to say this simply, but rather harshly (not directed towards you)...
This whole thing about Maemo being open was ********. It was mostly open. Not fully open. Sure, it's quite easy to say it doesn't really matter, but once those closed bits start to fall into disrepair because it cannot be worked around or replaced easily, then it starts to matter. And that's what we're starting to see with the N900/Maemo 5. Soon... we'll probably see that with Maemo 6/Harmattan due mostly to how things may play out in that version in regards to support from Nokia.
This whole thing about it being open or not mattering isn't what was being boasted around these parts at all. Maemo was open. It was the most open. It's mostly open. It's somewhat open... each month it was a newer, lower qualifier attached to it and the earlier vitriol attached to "<insert anything other than Maemo here> sucks because it's not as open as Maemo" wasn't warranted.
Why? Because Maemo was just as closed. Irony? Yes. Do I care? Not really. But I'm merely pointing it out.
MeeGo 1.2 is open. Harmattan isn't. Android isn't. The rest boils down to what I'd use to make up my mind on what I'll pick to have around me in the future.
Ecosystem, support, fancy looking device, because I like the way it's spelled. Whatever. I just don't like people promoting falsehoods like they're facts. Maemo ain't open 100% - be it drivers or important **** that is still classed as WONTFIX to this day and will not be fixed or worked around.
It's that simple. Not open, it'll mean that I'll have to look at obsolescence sooner than I'd like on important bits. As a consumer, I feel it's more honest to say what is and what isn't closed.
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=56036&page=60
Close-source ANYTHING tightly integrated enough and left unsupported by Nokia leads to this crap. The N900 people used to tell me, "Well.. get an N900, then!" when these things started to happen. The N900 people are going to start running into this soon enough too because Fremantle is no longer current, Nokia doesn't care about supporting it, it's riddled with closed-source and eventually nobody will care because, "well.. get an N9, then!" Planned obsolescence of a device that marketed itself as open-source with an open-source process and even a teasing and fruitless process for opening up portions is pretty obnoxious.
__________________
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
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Certainly a greater step backwards for Nokia, but I can't hold them to anything they said before at this point. I just assume the worst from them now.