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2008-01-09
, 15:06
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Posts: 11,700 |
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Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#272
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I'd also like to see a flush touchscreen, with a caveat: it would be nice if case customizations were supported. Imagine being able to easily pop out the faceplate of a fully-flush tablet and pop in one that had, say, low ridges surrounding the screen if one so wanted.
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Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2008-01-09
, 15:11
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Posts: 11,700 |
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Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#273
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Originally Posted by TA-t3
I'm not saying the trend is manifesting immediately-- I was projecting. But at least for Nokia cell phones, we are definitely moving that way sooner than later. Many of our phones currently use mini or microSD... offhand I can cite the N75, E62, and the one my wife is currently using (I forget the model at the moment).
I'm a bit curious.. where is the actual evidence for this? I'm not saying you're wrong, but my impression is the opposite - if anything, SD (full size) seems to be the trend. In December, for example, I checked out a lot of digital cameras for a gift and it's full-size SD more than ever, SDHC in particular. Even Fujifilm, which used to be xD only, now supports SD too.
In fact I'm not even aware of any device using micro- or mini-SD, except for the N810. No doubt they exist, but I suspect that this would mainly be in some mobile phones. And a mobile phone has very different needs in my opinion, they tend to just have one single card stuck in there permanently, as an extension for the internal memory. It doesn't really matter at all what type of card that is.
What other, common devices are there out there with mini/micro-SD?
But give it time. Card manufacturers will be able to get higher yields from smaller chips. Device manufacturers will be able to free up real estate. Retailers can (theoretically) get more items on the rack (yes, I pre-emptively grant all the arguments against that one). Etc etc.
Anyway, the pros of shrinking form factors outweigh the cons overall. That said, I personally prefer full size SD over mini or micro for more than one reason.
EDIT: I'm going to exclude cameras, especially SLR, from that observation. Cameras don't need to "worry" so much about the factors that are driving other devices toward smaller card forms.
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Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Last edited by Texrat; 2008-01-09 at 15:22.
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2008-01-09
, 15:28
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Posts: 39 |
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Joined on Dec 2007
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#274
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Originally Posted by TA-t3
T3, back in the days, I would only buy digicams that use compact flash. Once SD Cards became more mainstream and affordable, there was little choice.. I also hung on to non SDHC for as long as possible, but 8GB SDHC now costs less than 4GB SD(non-HC).
Whatever features they decide to put in the new device: What I cares most for is the issue of cards. If they give us a device with micro- or mini-SD, and only one slot at that, I will be so extremely disappointed that I will have no words for it. Now that it seems to be a verified fact (reading up on specs) that SDHC is _not_ limited to 32GB, but actually 2048GB, full-size SDHC will _always_ be better than the tiny cards. And in any case the tiny cards are so small I'm going to keep losing them (as I do already with any other item that small).
This is really the most important thing for me. I also have six other devices which use full-size SD. Full-size SD is a _must_ for me. Yes, I would like to have TV out. And wimax would be great. But no deal if I don't get the SD slots.
Puh! I'll go away now - I'll not whine anymore about this until we see the new device announced.
The point is, as a business you cater to market and engineering needs. The mass market has already accepted MicroSDHC cards, as they will work with Full Size SDHC (using an adapter).
I believe the majority would prefer other additional features and accept a reduction to MicroSDHC.. At this point, the N810 uses MiniSDHC.. if Nokia did this.. and MicroSDHC surely has a larger market.. they'll switch to MicroSDHC.. to make room to give us the features we're asking for.. tv-out, larger battery, etc..
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2008-01-09
, 15:56
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Posts: 3,841 |
Thanked: 1,079 times |
Joined on Nov 2006
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#275
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Sigh. Ok I won't post more on this issue for a while, but if microSD is a trend (and not a _projected_, future trend), then I would like to be pointed to some real evidence, i.e. a list of devices and what type of cards they use. I'm not asking anyone to compile such a list obviously, but as long as our own individual impressions are the only kind of evidence we have I can only rely on my own observations: I just don't see a move to microSD at all. Yet. And I also think that mobile phones is the special case here, not the other way around (as already mentioned). (And as far as I'm concerned they can as well be as small as physically possible. Obviously a device with a usable screen, as a tablet, _can't_ be shrinked much.)
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N800/OS2007|N900/Maemo5
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N800/OS2007|N900/Maemo5
-- Metalayer-crawler delenda est.
-- Current state: Fed up with everything MeeGo.
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2008-01-09
, 17:15
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#276
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Originally Posted by TA-t3
To the first part, true... and my observations come as an industry insider exposed to a lot of the "buzz". That leads to the second part: cell phones are such a HUGE driver for the electronics industry that as they go, so will many other devices. I'm not saying today or tomorrow, but as we build them, it will come.
as long as our own individual impressions are the only kind of evidence we have I can only rely on my own observations: I just don't see a move to microSD at all. Yet. And I also think that mobile phones is the special case here, not the other way around (as already mentioned).)
EDIT: I can see my first statement not coming across very well, but it was meant to indicate perspective, not arrogance.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Last edited by Texrat; 2008-01-09 at 17:39.
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2008-01-09
, 20:58
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Posts: 40 |
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Joined on Jan 2008
@ France
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#277
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I havn't read all page but if the FM tuner back will be a good idea 
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2008-01-09
, 22:01
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Posts: 1,878 |
Thanked: 646 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
@ San Jose, CA
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#278
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Some thoughts on recent posts:
More than anything I've said so far, what I REALLY want is a device whose profile is like the Sidekick LX, but has a slide and tilt screen instead of a swivel screen. Same button placements as the LX. (a month or two ago, there was a nokia patent drawing released that showed a tilt that uses a folding segment to support the screen, instead of just something like the AT&T tilt; that would be the ideal tilting mechanism, I think)
I don't know how comfortale the LX's keyboard is (in terms of button pressure and click), but I want/need something with a better feel than the N810's -- it wears on my thumbs much more quickly than my Samsung SCH-R410 does (I can TXT all day on that thing).
Then you can lose the kickstand (and just use the tilt of the screen for that purpose), and that also makes any ports and such always available.
And put the camera and light sensor along the top edge of the screen.
Right now, I think that's what I want to see the MOST in the next generation of NIT. More than WiMAX/HSPA/EVDO, more than Bluetooth-PAN, more than video out, more than swapable face plates, more than 3 microSD cards, more than microSD at all, more than a fully finger friendly GUI. I want that physical device layout.
- Software is mutable
Yes, but hardware needs to be released in synchronization with software that properly uses it. If the long term goal is to finally release an iPhone-like degree of finger friendliness, then the "few/no buttons on the face" NIT design should have waited for that software to be ready before it was released.
If you release hardware before the software it needs is ready, you get bungled products, like the early generations of PowerMacs, which were crippled in their speed because the entire OS was still written for the Motorola 68K machines, and thus completely emulated on the PowerPC processors. There are other examples, but the point is: it all has to be ready at the same time.
While I do generally love my N810, I would rather have seen Chinook released for the N800, and waited for the N810, so that the N810 wasn't released until a finger friendly GUI was ready.
- microSD
- Every cell phone I come across (from ANY vendor) which has a memory card, uses a microSD/transflash card. And there's too many of them for me to track them all down and post them.
- Every device which uses a miniSD or full size SD card can use a microSD card.
microSD is the lingua franca (sp?) of embedded device memory cards. (unless you're dealing with the cretins from Sony, who use the memory sticks on their non-phone devices ... but even their phones use microSD, IIRC).
- Every cell phone I come across (from ANY vendor) which has a memory card, uses a microSD/transflash card. And there's too many of them for me to track them all down and post them.
- FM radio
Nice candy. But I'd rather have that space given to me having 2 accessible microSD card slots. Ideally, 3 slots:
- one not physically accessible to the user, for housing GPS data, OS, swap space, etc.
- one that has restricted access to the user (internal, behind the battery or something), for /home/user, preference data, and installed apps, so that they don't get wiped out when you re-flash and such
- one that is external, for random other tasks (backups, removable/swappable storage, etc.).
If I can have 3 microSD slots, then I'd be happy with re-adding the FM Radio (though, I'd like to point out, that since I never use the ear buds, an FM radio is actually pretty useless to me).
- Flush faceplate
A flush, removable, face plate would be pretty ideal, yes. Basically, like the N810 face, only the metal face is removable, and you can get one that is completely flush with the screen. Or you can get one that has ridges. Or one that has a bevel.
- scrolling
I would prefer, above and beyond all else, iPhone like scrolling (inertial finger flicking, finger sized virtual scroll bars for finger manipulation, that kind of thing).
Physical scroll bars (not wheels) would also be fine. Though, they'd have to be flush with the screen (if slightly separated from it), so that they don't violate the above thought about a flush face plate.
As for scroll wheels .... as I've said before, I'd rather burst into flames.
More than anything I've said so far, what I REALLY want is a device whose profile is like the Sidekick LX, but has a slide and tilt screen instead of a swivel screen. Same button placements as the LX. (a month or two ago, there was a nokia patent drawing released that showed a tilt that uses a folding segment to support the screen, instead of just something like the AT&T tilt; that would be the ideal tilting mechanism, I think)
I don't know how comfortale the LX's keyboard is (in terms of button pressure and click), but I want/need something with a better feel than the N810's -- it wears on my thumbs much more quickly than my Samsung SCH-R410 does (I can TXT all day on that thing).
Then you can lose the kickstand (and just use the tilt of the screen for that purpose), and that also makes any ports and such always available.
And put the camera and light sensor along the top edge of the screen.
Right now, I think that's what I want to see the MOST in the next generation of NIT. More than WiMAX/HSPA/EVDO, more than Bluetooth-PAN, more than video out, more than swapable face plates, more than 3 microSD cards, more than microSD at all, more than a fully finger friendly GUI. I want that physical device layout.
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2008-01-09
, 22:10
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Posts: 1,878 |
Thanked: 646 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
@ San Jose, CA
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#279
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Oh, and if the hardware developers read that last part, about what I really want in the next release, and they want someone to look at a next-gen device that has a similar profile to that ... feel free to send me a device to eval, and I'll happily sign an NDA
(like any of the people on these forums wouldn't make the same offer )
(like any of the people on these forums wouldn't make the same offer
)
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2008-01-09
, 22:15
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#280
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Originally Posted by johnkzin
I strongly disagree in this case. Personally I don't see the discussed disconnect as a showstopper (YMMV of course) and I'd rather get my hands on hardware and deal with a few minor shortcomings than wait for perfection. I'm not sure Nokia can afford to wait, either, given the ramping competition. If the issue was critical rather than a mere inconvenience, however, I'd definitely be inclined to agree. And this is no defense by any means, but I'll bet I can point to many consumer electronics devices by many manufacturers that ship with a software flaw or two.
[*]Software is mutable
Yes, but hardware needs to be released in synchronization with software that properly uses it. If the long term goal is to finally release an iPhone-like degree of finger friendliness, then the "few/no buttons on the face" NIT design should have waited for that software to be ready before it was released.
And I realize this subject raises some hackles, but I also like the idea of the user community offering software solution suggestions, which stand to gain from the aforementioned inconvenience. I'm having difficulty at the moment wording what I mean but hopefully you get the gist. Users suffering from the d-pad's relocation are good candidates (and would hopefully be truly inspired) for offering key input. Yeah. That's better.
Of course, my opinion on the matter ends up as useless if nothing comes of this (cough) UI improvement opportunity...
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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In fact I'm not even aware of any device using micro- or mini-SD, except for the N810. No doubt they exist, but I suspect that this would mainly be in some mobile phones. And a mobile phone has very different needs in my opinion, they tend to just have one single card stuck in there permanently, as an extension for the internal memory. It doesn't really matter at all what type of card that is.
What other, common devices are there out there with mini/micro-SD?
N800/OS2007|N900/Maemo5
-- Metalayer-crawler delenda est.
-- Current state: Fed up with everything MeeGo.