in case anyone missed sn0wmonsters update:
https://neo900.org/news/neo900-update-2017-07-18

Read it.
So...not only is it a four year wait...thus far...
With an initial cost of $1800 + CDN a unit.
Now they figure after people have preordered an ungodly sum...
that they should just throw more money at this sinkhole...by doing a kickstarter fund raiser?????

Really?! ?!?!?!!

Incredible.

As it stands...for 2 grand CDN ...
comparably one could buy...what...? :
1 1/2 ounces of gold... really...
A used car less than 10 years old in very good shape...
Take a decent vacation ..
Pay one's yearly property taxes on their city house ..
Buy a decent laptop...
Buy how many crap $50-$100 phones? With almost comparable specs?! ?!!?!??

Asking anymore we may as well start comparing the escalating costs to manned space missions.

I am just guessing here...

But...if a kickstarter is needed...it is just a guess...that the final cost for the people investing in this is going to escalate...
And my guess again is that if a kickstarter is needed...
The funds that people started throwing at this project 4 years ago is either at best :
A- not enough to continue with what everyone believed was "next stage payment" ...when it came time...
4 years of paying for people's work on the project.. supplies and parts...but most importantly 4 years of wages...I think have eaten a great deal of the project preorder funds.
Or...
B- possibly eaten severely away.

But there is no way of knowing just how fiscally fluid the project is...
Because disclosure of what there is remaining ...hasn't been given.

If this new guy.. and good for him...he has his heart in the right place...
But...
From a marketing standpoint...
His update...is an example of terrible salesmanship.
A kickstarter at this point is going to be a hard sell...
-especially after the statement in the same update that there are no guarantees of project completion and success....STILL.
One would think after 4 years of this merry go round ...that there would be a little more certainty of project completion...by flippin' now
Forget the fact of trying to sell a kickstarter to tell people to dump MORE money into...as a fundraiser...
Most of whom have already done just that.
I myself initially put down half the cost for one.
Think I am going to throw more?
..think the people who have already thrown hefty chunks of money at this project can just throw more ?
At a fundraiser?
Now?
At this point?
With still an undisclosed finish date..?....
undisclosed total of the preorder funds left at this time? ...
Undisclosed FINAL cost per unit?
And uncertain STILL as to the project success?
Mr. New Guy Marketer...
Your update is not a moving and motivating sales pitch.
Definitely though ...
Negative attention marketing does catch attention...
And I cannot say what the update contains is positive ..past the technical good news...
Wow..
This IS a new development. Nothing was mentioned at anytime that a fundraiser was to be needed half way through the project...
..the next stage of payment needed ...yes...but this new thing about a kickstarter ...


Want to even remotely hope for a few to throw more money ...
Better start selling rainbows...

I think at this juncture...
After 4 years of waiting..
Clear and transparent language.
Clear and transparent timeline.
Clear and transparent pricing.
Clear and transparent disclosure of funds ...period.
Consistent updates.
I do believe that those who have supported this project and thrown a good chunk of money at to make happen...deserve that much...at bloody least.

And finally...
As far as rebuttals go from project members..
I don't want to see even a whisper of attitude.
not only a staunch project supporter for years ..
but I have been paying...along with many others ...the wages ...however great or small...for this project...for YEARS now...
Clear ...polite.. understanding ...empathic ...answers .....need to start happening.

how about a rebuttal from someone also disappointed that also sunk a lot of money, who also may or may not be able to pay even more to eventually get one of these super-magic doohickeys?

personally, i think the whole neo900 team has been amazing. IMO, there was some serious mishandling in the communication department in the past, and this is apparently still a struggle for them (one official communicaiton in 6 months...)

but when they DO communicate, they get yelled at hardest.

from where i stand, it looks like nothing they can do now or couldve done in the past would get you a magic box any sooner. im sure youre not implying anyone on the team deliberately misled people...

theyre dealing with a crappy reality where they were (very) wrong about how things would go, mostly for unpredictable reasons outside their control, and yet they havent just abandoned the project (in my opinion, there were at least 3 times that no one could have blamed them for giving it up).

IMO, demanding a fixed timeline+price now is just asking them to lie to you. i personally dont see how they could accurately predict that at this point.

and anyway, what does all this bitterness do? im sure we're all frustrated and disappointed together.

Here is my opinion...

This is an outstanding project. If there will be a ready device in the end, it would be priceless with the current market situation.

From the beginning it was for me clear that it will take much longer than advertised first and I will not see the invested money again. Especially with this few manpower. Maybe it will fail we don't know yet. The chance to fail was also from the beginning very high.
People who think different are same optimistic like the people who started the project.

This is a community project when complaining about time than you should help to make things faster. But don't forget time and knowledge means also money. Only few people helped with time and knowledge and the rest... ?

When you complaining about specifications then you don't know for what this project is and you don't know the amount of people and there possibilities behind this.

Definitely some mistakes were made in this project. Every company would be dead by now. But you should not think like a salesman with such a project.

And we have somebody who is fighting for our dreams with the cost of his health.
Please keep this in mind and be respectful.
How much is a salary of a developer engineer or similar per year?
In comparison to health nothing. And somebody give both for nearly free as far as I know.

However try to make such a project on your own.
My invested money in this project and the time which passed already does not hurt me so much. I would give every weekend a beer to Jörg for his work. And by now it would be much more money.

I wish good luck to this project, I see it as a starting for something next which more people would like to have in the future.

Hopefully the old supporters will get some special deal when it comes to kickstarter.

Kickstarter could also give some new options we will see. But I guess not many people want to resign of something what there have right now to get more freedom. Especially if it cost money in addition.

@Halftux,

I fully agree with you. In fact, for all I care the money I've paid so far (~ EUR 700 IIRC) has been a donation to the team, for their idea and for their hard work.

IF I ever get a Neo900 I will consider it a donation from their side, even if I would still have to top-up my donation

Things don't always work out like one wants. But I'm grateful that a bunch of people tried to make their *and my* mobile-dream come true.

Bitterness ...no.
Nor do any of the other rebuttals apply.

Can the whitewash.
can the anti loyal sentiment.
can the rhetoric.
Can the attempted sympathy for "just" the team.
Investors have put their effort in ...just as much..in time, money, and health ...so that argument simply falls flat.
can the cries of "unpatriotic" , "heretic", "unbeliever"
Can the pat responses that infer.
Can the 3rd rate psychoanalysis.
not one of you has the right to judge another as to what that individual is thinking, believing or feeling. So you can really shove that...into whichever of your own bodily orifices that pleases you.

After 4 years...during which has occurred the passage of a few estimated release dates ...and this time last year ..the last full year of which has seen no update...
Suddenly a statement comes out. Not answering questions past a few technical referrals..
but reiterating that there is still no clearer word on even the possibility of project success.
And ...surprise ...we now are doing a kickstarter.

Want believability ?..
want...need more money...?
Just asking for it will net far far far less..
than first explaining the entirety of the situation.
Transparency of finances..
clear and concise speech.
Answers.
Accountability... essentially.
These are not unreasonable unattainables ...

So can the smoke screen and all the rebuttals which do nothing at all to detract from the the simple fact ...
Many many many questions now need answering...
The least being the fiscal status of remaining funds...
The given that the cost per device is now higher...so by how much?
And many many many more questions need answers....


In the timeline nary a mention of fundraising half way through the project...
Preorder investors were to put up with the next stage of investing...
No mention of kickstarter crowdfunding...
Why is that?
If a kickstarter is needed ...
There are obvious undisclosed issues which need to be made public.

Answers.

If I recall correctly, the plan has always been that a crowdfunding campaign would be launched after proto_v2 has been manufactured, tested and demonstrated. My understanding was that once they have demonstrated a working prototype, they would use crowdfunding to attract new customers. I could not see anything in sn0wmonster's post that suggests that the Kickstarter campaign would be used to raise more money from those of us who already made the early donation and further down payment.

I agree that 4 years is a long time to wait and I'm also disappointed that the Neo900 still hasn't arrived. Having said that, the situation is still the same... 4 years on and I'm still using my N900 because there is still no superior product on the market and nothing on the horizon. The closest thing might be chenliangchen's forthcoming "Lauta" device, but from what I read, it's going to be yet another device designed for use with an Android kernel, Android blobs and an out of date GNU userland (hello Sailfish!).

I don't know if the Neo900 will ever see the light of day, but if it does, it will be a wonderful surprise. If you're right and I'm wrong about the Kickstarter campaign and they do want more money from us early backers, then I agree with you. It would be taking the piss and I'm not sure I would send any more money their way. Once proto_v3 has been demoed and if looks like the project very close to completion, then I'd be delighted to send the remainder to complete my purchase, which by now with the 2% monthly interest accumulated on my early donation, shouldn't hit my wallet too hard.

Let's just wait and see what happens before jumping to any conclusions.

I agree completely.

The brief mentions do not assuage ...or illuminate...
Too vague....
Project completion uncertainty.
Brief mention of crowdfunding..
not what people need to hear after a year with no update...

It does not boost confidence...but concern and worry instead.
The language used is very concerning...

Clarity.
Disclosure.
Transparent speech.

Answers

Can you explain to me why this would be a priceless device? I may be missing something (and if I am, please tell me what I'm missing), but why is this an attractive product now? As far as I can tell, the neo900 hardware will be about what one would have expected in a good phone circa 2011. So the neo900's only realistic selling point is privacy. As I understand it, the main privacy protections it will offer is the ability to power-off the baseband processor, and to prevent the baseband processor from having unrestricted DMA access to the device's main RAM.

But anytime you connect to a cell tower with any device, or even WiFi hotspot, you unavoidably become trackable. So how does the neo900 give you more privacy than you would have if you simply carried a cell phone that you put a battery in only when you wanted to contact a cell tower, and a laptop that used that cell phone's WiFi hotspot for internet access?

What am I missing? Who's going to want to buy one of these, at this late date? And why?

From my stand point Technology is moving at a rate now that most can't not keep up with. So these days simply pulling a battery (not all phone can anymore) doesn't actually guarantee that your device still won't be able to communication and leak info. For example bluetooth now can last for month with tiny batteries which can be hidden on a mother board or using RFID this could some how be use to start up some kind of function. I know these seem wild ideas, but they're really not that tuff if you have the knowledge and resources.

So while you are correct that the long something this take to come out the harder it will be for non fanboy/ privacy type that might want it. I still enjoy using maemo OS it fits me well, mobile that does stop you from doing more. Additionally it about trusting someone right, either your trust apple, samsung and google or you don't or you jut don't care (most probably). I think there is a market for these types of device as shown by the more than a few start up that have tried. the problem with them is that hey start or require android which I won't use in any form (just me).

So to come back to your question, I think projects like these are very important. They give use a real choice and lay the ground work for other to follow. Making hardware that is not dyes from existing hardware is very hard and not cheap.

So I think you have a very important question that may or may not be explain well for many. I think you can't really explain people into wanting something, I mean convenience is supreme and nothing about the n900/Neo900 is convenient in todays market.

But lastly I can see a time where it may be mandatory to have a always trackable device on you in order to travel, buy, communicate ... well that's already now . And I do realize that we are tracked in so many ways today with wifi across cities and metros, via bluetooth in store, sound beacons at some place (apple stores?) and cell towers. But you mostly still have the ability to turn then off. With the neo900 you get 2 extra layers the hardware and software.

Having the option for those that don't want or need that is in my book priceless.

Now a question for you. How did you come to hear about or be interested in the neo900? And what important to you?

Thanks for posting and hopefully answering

Cheers
X