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2012-08-25
, 21:36
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Posts: 2,222 |
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Joined on Mar 2010
@ SOL 3
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#282
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Originally Posted by peterleinchen
Hi peterleinchen,
We are talking about 500k !
Not really meesing up rootfs space, or?
I, personally, can not imagine "living" with standard busybox and its limitations anymore. But can also live with ""optional"" installation, but would/do see this package as an (default) enhancement, also to CSSU.
as you already noticed you can "live with" optional installation of busybox-power. That's your freedom of choice. You also mentioned that you "can't live" without busybox-power. Now maybe other users "can't live" without those 500k rootfs storage space. Keeping busybox-power optional is about their freedom of choice to keep those 500k free, as much as it is about yours to install busybox-power on top of CSSU.
That's one of highest principles in CSSU, not to force anything on users that they as well might decide on by themselves.
It about freedom of choice.
cheers
Joerg
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Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
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EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
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First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
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2012-08-26
, 04:18
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Posts: 5,028 |
Thanked: 8,613 times |
Joined on Mar 2011
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#283
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First of all, it is not place to discuss CSSU ideals, IMO. Fortunately, for what I know, both busybox-power and cssu-thumb - mentioned here - are on their perfect way for inclusion into CSSU, despite attempts by "some vocal ones with almost no (if any) actual coding contribution (to CSSU) for the last 2 years". I'm glad, that it's time, when people more active in contributing to Maemo (outside IRC) during last years, start to decide more and more how CSSU should look like.
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As for busybox itself, I don't necessary understand, why busybox-power upstream patches should be extracted and included into another incarnation of busybox project, in Your opinion. Busybox-power is *all* of upstream patches, so why to clone it? You just don't like anything with "power" in name, or what?
Last but not least, busybox-power is well tested (and nothing from standard Maemo "busybox-aware" scripts gets broken), both by developer, and by countless users - I would risk to say that more, than CSSU have or will ever have. No matter of the above, it's definitely better tested, that parts of CSSU have been (swapping return with kp_enter)
Kudos to IDont for all great work put into busybox-power - don't get distracted completely minor thumbs down, based on non-merit reasons. We all keep thumbs, both up and kept (
) for busybox-power (and again set of thumbs-up for merlin1991, for, basically, deciding to include busybox-power in CSSU, sooner or later).
/Estel
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As for busybox itself, I don't necessary understand, why busybox-power upstream patches should be extracted and included into another incarnation of busybox project, in Your opinion. Busybox-power is *all* of upstream patches, so why to clone it? You just don't like anything with "power" in name, or what?
Last but not least, busybox-power is well tested (and nothing from standard Maemo "busybox-aware" scripts gets broken), both by developer, and by countless users - I would risk to say that more, than CSSU have or will ever have. No matter of the above, it's definitely better tested, that parts of CSSU have been (swapping return with kp_enter)
Kudos to IDont for all great work put into busybox-power - don't get distracted completely minor thumbs down, based on non-merit reasons. We all keep thumbs, both up and kept (
) for busybox-power (and again set of thumbs-up for merlin1991, for, basically, deciding to include busybox-power in CSSU, sooner or later)./Estel
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2012-08-26
, 04:26
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Posts: 2,222 |
Thanked: 12,651 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ SOL 3
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#284
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dream on dreamer!
Those who know to read will judge you on your words. And as much as you try to suggest, you're neither maintainer nor any form of active contributor of CSSU, nor any active council member anymore despite what your signature tells, and thus not in a position to define what's criteria for merit to have a word on CSSU. It's actually like it's you who is trying to push "own prefferences" and "ideology", but we've seen that pattern a lot with you accusing others for what you currently are doing yourself.
PS: since it's not been me who started that nonsense here, I only can say I'll not further contribute to this (don't feed the troll). And just a suggestion to others: don't believe the lies estel continuously spreads! every second sentence of him includes an implicit lie. Quotes? sure! >>and again set of thumbs-up for merlin1991, for, basically, deciding to include busybox-power in CSSU, sooner or later<<
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2012-08-26 at 04:38.
Those who know to read will judge you on your words. And as much as you try to suggest, you're neither maintainer nor any form of active contributor of CSSU, nor any active council member anymore despite what your signature tells, and thus not in a position to define what's criteria for merit to have a word on CSSU. It's actually like it's you who is trying to push "own prefferences" and "ideology", but we've seen that pattern a lot with you accusing others for what you currently are doing yourself.
PS: since it's not been me who started that nonsense here, I only can say I'll not further contribute to this (don't feed the troll). And just a suggestion to others: don't believe the lies estel continuously spreads! every second sentence of him includes an implicit lie. Quotes? sure! >>and again set of thumbs-up for merlin1991, for, basically, deciding to include busybox-power in CSSU, sooner or later<<
__________________
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2012-08-26 at 04:38.
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2012-08-26
, 14:07
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Posts: 381 |
Thanked: 336 times |
Joined on Jan 2011
@ Stockholm, Sweden
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#285
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Originally Posted by joerg_rw
So why even bother with such useless features as portrait mode in busybox then!?...
CSSU is conservative, and quality of paramount importance (basically both one same thing)
Wouldnt it be *much* better to spend time on bugfixing or cleaning up annoyances with hildon for example, or even to have a life, rather than to spend a lot of time and effort to introduce such an annoying *bug* as a rotating terminal?
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2012-08-27
, 07:18
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Posts: 1,397 |
Thanked: 2,126 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ Dublin, Ireland
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#286
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Originally Posted by joerg_rw
500 Kb of rootfs is by no means a valid reason to ban busybox-power from CSSU. And if rootfs space was so important to even care so much about 500 Kb, we should then jump right now to Thumb2 to fix that incredibly important limitation.
replacing busybox by busybox-power eats rare precious space in rootfs (due to larger binary size of busybox-power), since busybox is needed during early boot and thus has to live in rootfs. I.E. it can't get optified.
Busybox-power however doesn't - by default - bring anything new that might justify indiscriminate waste of rootfs space for it, on all CSSU installs.
It's absolutely reasonable to keep busybox-power optional for those users who think they need it and want to accept the rootfs penalty it comes with.
/j
You have commented a lot of times that CSSU is here to provide updates and fixes for packages that can't be distributed via Extras. OK, then busybox-power, that can't be really distributed in a very clean way (it needs to replace original binary!!), is a perfect example of something that should be distributed by CSSU. Otherwise, you could argue that everything can be distributed providing binary replacements instead of upgrading packages (let's include Qt4.7.4 in Extras as a substitution of .so files!!).
If busybox-power is in Extras, it's simply because it was packaged before CSSU started. It was such an important need for users that it was one the first replacements to original Nokia software. Also it comes with tons of fixes not available in CSSU, not simply new features.
Last edited by ivgalvez; 2012-08-27 at 09:08.
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2012-08-27
, 08:03
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Posts: 1,397 |
Thanked: 2,126 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ Dublin, Ireland
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#287
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Originally Posted by iDont
To help people that might not be aware of this problem, you could simple bump busybox-power version after next CSSU's update to provide a reinstallation. The issue, however, will appear again when that update makes it's way into CSSU Stable (for those using that flavour of CSSU).
A general notice: next CSSU release will ship a new version of Maemo's default BusyBox; one with portait mode support. This means that your /bin/busybox will be changed to CSSU's version.
Simply reinstalling busybox-power (either graphically or via the terminal) will get you busybox-power again. I'll make sure to incorporate all patches from CSSU's busybox in busybox-power so you won't miss out on any new functionality or bugfixes.
There is one important detail, however! If you've made manual modifications to Maemo's critical scripts (e.g. /sbin/preinit) that made those dependant on busybox-power during boottime, you will have to revert those prior to updating CSSU. Otherwise you could risk a boot loop.
Lastly, upon removal or reinstallation of busybox-power, busybox-power will detect and warn you if /bin/busybox has been changed. You can safely ignore this warning, as we know what has caused it (CSSU update changing /bin/busybox).
The above message will be included in the first post of this thread.
Edit: I've updated the warning message mentioned above in busybox-power 1.20.2power1. It now states why /bin/busybox could've been modified, and explicitly mentions CSSU as a possible cause. Just to comfort users who may have missed this post
However, this is by no means a solution to the root cause of this problem, which is that bb-power shouldn't be distributed via Extras as a replacement of a system binary.
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2012-08-27
, 09:22
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Posts: 385 |
Thanked: 426 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Gothenburg, Sweden
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#288
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If true, I'm kinda of curious, why in the world would anyone want a busybox with portrait mode support when the hardware keyboard only makes sense in landscape mode.
This would only irritate people if the terminal keeps rotating all the time (like many other applications usually do when they most of the time shouldn't).
On top of that, CSSU would in such case replace the busybox-power (which is much improved compared to the stock one) with this rotating atrocity. So how's that for freedom of choice?
Well at least to me, that would be the worst crap feature of the year.
Where's that thread discussing this matter, I'd really like to know who came up with the "brilliant" idea.
This would only irritate people if the terminal keeps rotating all the time (like many other applications usually do when they most of the time shouldn't).
On top of that, CSSU would in such case replace the busybox-power (which is much improved compared to the stock one) with this rotating atrocity. So how's that for freedom of choice?
Well at least to me, that would be the worst crap feature of the year.
Where's that thread discussing this matter, I'd really like to know who came up with the "brilliant" idea.
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2012-08-27
, 09:34
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Posts: 1,100 |
Thanked: 2,797 times |
Joined on Apr 2011
@ Netherlands
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#289
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I thinks it is best that the behaviour of this potrait mode feature is explained in more detail by the ones involved.
Right now, I do not see any change in behaviour with the latest busybox. But I would expect the xterminal to be adapted for that.
If we get a proper proper portrait virtual keyboard (looks like it is arriving), I would not mind that option. It should switch back to landscape if the keyboard is open.
Until I have seen more info about this, I can't really judge it.
Right now, I do not see any change in behaviour with the latest busybox. But I would expect the xterminal to be adapted for that.
If we get a proper proper portrait virtual keyboard (looks like it is arriving), I would not mind that option. It should switch back to landscape if the keyboard is open.
Until I have seen more info about this, I can't really judge it.
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2012-08-27
, 09:50
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Posts: 385 |
Thanked: 426 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Gothenburg, Sweden
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#290
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Originally Posted by ade
Yes, I shouldn't say too much about it until I know how it will be, but just by hearing about it I really really can't see any valid point in introducing that.
I thinks it is best that the behaviour of this potrait mode feature is explained in more detail by the ones involved.
Right now, I do not see any change in behaviour with the latest busybox. But I would expect the xterminal to be adapted for that.
If we get a proper proper portrait virtual keyboard (looks like it is arriving), I would not mind that option. It should switch back to landscape if the keyboard is open.
Until I have seen more info about this, I can't really judge it.
One of the reasons to stick with the N900 is that the terminal is so GOOD with the phys. keyboard. Why would I then start typing on a virtual keyboard, that indeed would SHRINK like half of the screen in portrait mode (the whole thing is actually kind of laughable).
Ok, if it wouldn't rotate when the keyboard is out, I wouldn't mind that much (even if it makes no sense to rotate it even if the keyboard is in), but if it forces itself to install over the busybox-power it really irritates me even if I can reinstall busybox-power.
I just hope the CSSU team doesn't add things to the CSSU just because they can code them.
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/j
*) to simplify this task for you, it might actually be sufficient to find out what were the problematic commands in initscripts (back in pre-1.2 times iirc) and just check if the syntax and output (and semantics) of these busybox commands has changed due to the applied upstream fixes, and if the current initscripts still have those defective
lines.
In fact THAT would be some much appreciated contribution to CSSU, as opposed to your constant questioning of qualifications, motivations and decisions of CSSU team which doesn't really help much for anything
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2012-08-25 at 21:01.