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2008-08-04
, 15:48
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Posts: 4,930 |
Thanked: 2,272 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
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#22
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WRT 1x1; just because MIMO is a main point doesn't make it worthless otherwise. The AP can still benefit from being MIMO, despite having some devices only 1x1. And if you're wondering what the benefit is vs. g/n AP, with g devices, you can get better total throughput with no g traffic...
As for WiMAX; if it were rolled out in my area, I'd have a decent chance to jump for an N810W... I've got an N800, and plan to wait for the N900, but if it was here and working, I'd consider it. It really all depends on the plans available.
As for WiMAX; if it were rolled out in my area, I'd have a decent chance to jump for an N810W... I've got an N800, and plan to wait for the N900, but if it was here and working, I'd consider it. It really all depends on the plans available.
Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt
Which telcos you mean? Sprint, Comcast, Time Warner, and Bright House? (All telcos, all involved with the new Xohm+clearwire merger.) While some others might try blocking it, I see the biggest risk as being standards fragmentation, with a mix of WiMAX and LTE that makes roaming or temporary subscriptions with local providers impractical. Sprint et al. seem very interested, so I think we'll see it happen (perhaps at prices that minimize the bottom-line threat, though...); it's just a question of how limited-use a Xohm-compatible device winds up being.
So does anyone think that telcos are going to (if they haven't already) purchase large amounts of the spectrum, only to sit on the tech and let it stagnate? Certainly Moblie Wimax (not so much fixed) seems to pose a threat to their bottom line...
__________________
World's first inductively-charged N900!
World's first inductively-charged N900!
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2008-08-04
, 18:04
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Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#23
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Originally Posted by Aural
Yes, it is certainly an option to take into account. If the (artificial) latency isn't the culprit, and if the AUP allows the user to use VoIP (SIP) over the network. A (former) telco would be tempted to declare this illegal whereas a newcomer would not because its an interesting option for the customer. 3G and 4G should lead to the dead of older, slower standards like GSM and GPRS, _including_ different kind of usage.
I guess I didn't think about this. I generally follow the pessimistic mindset that the carriers will try to screw their customers by making WiMAX a separate service. Also, I had always thought of WiMax as a data only service not necessarily to be used for normal communications (phone calls), but upon doing some research I now realize that that was just ignorance on my behalf.
__________________
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
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2008-08-04
, 18:17
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Posts: 3,524 |
Thanked: 2,958 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#24
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Originally Posted by Benson
Thanks for the insight. I'm going to do some reading into the US/Canadian Wimax situation.
Which telcos you mean? Sprint, Comcast, Time Warner, and Bright House? (All telcos, all involved with the new Xohm+clearwire merger.) While some others might try blocking it, I see the biggest risk as being standards fragmentation, with a mix of WiMAX and LTE that makes roaming or temporary subscriptions with local providers impractical.
I'm a bit confused. How will standard fragmentation make something like temporary subscriptions difficult?
I suppose my concern with the large telcos largely in control of Wimax, they may drag their heels with its wide-spread implementation while blocking other competitors from the market.
}:^)~
YARR!
Content-type: Capt'n/Corrupt\n\n
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2008-08-04
, 18:21
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Posts: 3,524 |
Thanked: 2,958 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#25
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Originally Posted by luso
Man, I have got to do more reading on this interesting subject!
WiMax can also be seen as a wireless extension of fixed broadband. In USA, AT&T is looking at WiMax to provide broadband access to remote areas, and in countries like India the operators are doing the same. In Developing countries there is a significant number of wiMax Deployments and it is also staring in East Europe, France, etc.).
What I find interesting in WiMax is the possibility that this technology may force Mobile operators to move from the cashcow model to a flat rate model, unlimited access that exists in most countries for fixed broadband. In the end, WiMax may lead to a radical change in Mobile market. Sprint has already indicated that they are planning to do something in these lines.
A interesting market to watch is Korea where a Wimax (Wibro) like network is changing the rules of the game.
}:^)~
YARR!
Sargent Corrupt
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2008-08-04
, 19:07
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Posts: 132 |
Thanked: 30 times |
Joined on May 2007
@ Portugal
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#26
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Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt
Like any other disrupting technology in the past, there is a initial denial by the large operators, but as the new comers and challenging operators start to deploy and gaining market share using the new technology, the big guys are forced to enter the game.
So does anyone think that telcos are going to (if they haven't already) purchase large amounts of the spectrum, only to sit on the tech and let it stagnate? Certainly Moblie Wimax (not so much fixed) seems to pose a threat to their bottom line...
We saw this happening in Europe with ADSL. The push was done initially by the small operators while the big trying to protect the voice cash cow business. Only when they saw that if they did not move they would loose a large chunk of their business, they pushed also the new technology (the situation was different in USA). Example, in France with Free and Orange (Wanadoo).
Regarding WiMax, the same is happening in the developed countries. In France, WiMax will be initially deployed by challenging operators, and the others will follow later.
Technology wise wiMax and LTE are not very different, but Wimax has some years ahead (it is being deployed today while LTE will start [at best] to be deployed in 2010). This will give some head ground to WiMax deployment and this will make pressure to mobile operators. In my view, it is not the technology that will make the difference, but the business model.
A possibility, is that the mobile operators could use WiMax like they use WiFi today. Many Mobile Operators in Europe (Vodafone, Orange, etc.) have large amount of WiFi hot spots (hotels, airports, etc), and they give the possibility to their subscribers to, for a small fee, to have access to the WiFi hot spots (nice when you go on vacations).
The only issue that bothers me regarding WiMax is that in different continents/countries Wimax has different base frequencies (2.4G, 3.5G, 700 M, 2.5G). I hope N900 will support all of these (I have a N800).
I am rather optimist regarding the future of Wimax ;-)
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2008-08-04
, 19:13
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Posts: 4,930 |
Thanked: 2,272 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
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#27
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Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt
Well, in Europe, as I understand it, if you're going to a different country for a few days/weeks, your phone pretty much works anywhere, and you can get a SIM from some local provider. (Because everyone's on GSM, and pretty much the same frequencies.) In the US, we've got a much broader variety of incompatible networks (by technology, and for the two big GSM providers, frequencies), so your phone is less likely to work on other networks, either temporarily with a different SIM, or permanently switching.
Thanks for the insight. I'm going to do some reading into the US/Canadian Wimax situation.
I'm a bit confused. How will standard fragmentation make something like temporary subscriptions difficult?
A mix of WiMAX and LTE, and possibly WiMAX (at least) running on different frequencies, can similarly prevent your terminal equipment from functioning on other networks, which in the N810W case is probably more an issue WRT provider switching than temporary SIMs, but does handicap both. (Don't ask why I specifically mentioned the temporary issue, and not the switching, before...)
Just so you know, AFAIK the N810W is being discussed/marketed by Nokia only in conjunction with the Xohm network; it's unclear what other markets it would work in, and whether variants will be produced for other frequencies, etc., though if it's successful that sort of expansion might make sense.
__________________
World's first inductively-charged N900!
World's first inductively-charged N900!
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2008-08-04
, 23:45
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Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#28
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I don't know about the rest of Europe, but in the Netherlands you can buy unlocked mobile phones or you can legally unlock your phone 1 year after you purchased it. You can then easily buy a SIM only card when you are in a different country. You can even get cheap prepaid phones. On eBay they fly for laughable prices.
The 2G, 2.5G, 3G networks in Europe are very compatible with each other. The only issue are the high roaming costs, and the ****heads dare to impose fees on someone who is out of the country and being called. They even do this on SMS. 50 cent to send an IM. Imagine that! Now, the EU is actively trying to lower this, but probably the deal is they go further with this after the summer so the telcos still had a summer to cash in.
Sometimes there are ways to work around the expensive roaming besides buying a local SIM card: FON, payphone, hotel, internet cafe, or a 'phone house'. In The Netherlands you can find several phone houses which provide cheap deals because immigrants live in The Netherlands, and they want to stay in touch with family. So, they advertise with "Maroc X cents a min" and "Suriname Y cents a min". You can get good deals there, plus often they also unlock your phone with no problem. Another way is to, erm, let someone phone you instead. Not nice perhaps, but then you say: "only if its urgent". If you have a data plan, sometimes the roaming costs are limited to X MB per day. There are all kind of vague limits. Instead, I suggest to consider iPASS instead. This way you can get flat-free, relatively cheap roaming only for the days you really need it. IOW, no worries.
Nevertheless, 3G chips also have backward compatibility so if 3G isn't available it falls back to older standards like GPRS. 3G is also widely available. So, if you can get a good deal for a data plan (with or w/o NIT), you're set.
The 2G, 2.5G, 3G networks in Europe are very compatible with each other. The only issue are the high roaming costs, and the ****heads dare to impose fees on someone who is out of the country and being called. They even do this on SMS. 50 cent to send an IM. Imagine that! Now, the EU is actively trying to lower this, but probably the deal is they go further with this after the summer so the telcos still had a summer to cash in.
Sometimes there are ways to work around the expensive roaming besides buying a local SIM card: FON, payphone, hotel, internet cafe, or a 'phone house'. In The Netherlands you can find several phone houses which provide cheap deals because immigrants live in The Netherlands, and they want to stay in touch with family. So, they advertise with "Maroc X cents a min" and "Suriname Y cents a min". You can get good deals there, plus often they also unlock your phone with no problem. Another way is to, erm, let someone phone you instead. Not nice perhaps, but then you say: "only if its urgent". If you have a data plan, sometimes the roaming costs are limited to X MB per day. There are all kind of vague limits. Instead, I suggest to consider iPASS instead. This way you can get flat-free, relatively cheap roaming only for the days you really need it. IOW, no worries.
Nevertheless, 3G chips also have backward compatibility so if 3G isn't available it falls back to older standards like GPRS. 3G is also widely available. So, if you can get a good deal for a data plan (with or w/o NIT), you're set.
__________________
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
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2008-08-08
, 02:21
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Posts: 71 |
Thanked: 6 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Lee's Summit, MO, USA
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#29
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I'm in WiMax central (Kansas City, the WHQ of Sprint), so I'll probably grab it on pre-purchase.
As for Nokia supporting WiMax or LTE, it looks like they are embracing both widely instead of one or the other. They have some pretty close partnerships with Intel on their enterprise security division, but they also have some business connections on the LTE side. The one thing that I think will be excess baggage on the LTE side is patents Qualcomm has on key modulation and dsp technologies in it. This is precisely why GSM is the global standard, even though it is technically inferior to CDMA. Sprint and Verizon (as well as several other carriers around the world) have been held hostage by Qualcomm because of their extremely litigious method of instilling their patents on handset makers. Ever wonder why Nokia doesn't make many CDMA handsets? Now you know why. They don't like having to pay the royalties and be cornered by one outside force into designing to their specs.
As for Nokia supporting WiMax or LTE, it looks like they are embracing both widely instead of one or the other. They have some pretty close partnerships with Intel on their enterprise security division, but they also have some business connections on the LTE side. The one thing that I think will be excess baggage on the LTE side is patents Qualcomm has on key modulation and dsp technologies in it. This is precisely why GSM is the global standard, even though it is technically inferior to CDMA. Sprint and Verizon (as well as several other carriers around the world) have been held hostage by Qualcomm because of their extremely litigious method of instilling their patents on handset makers. Ever wonder why Nokia doesn't make many CDMA handsets? Now you know why. They don't like having to pay the royalties and be cornered by one outside force into designing to their specs.
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I'm only a troublemaker on the Internet
I'm only a troublemaker on the Internet
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2008-08-08
, 03:39
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Posts: 861 |
Thanked: 734 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
@ Nomadic
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#30
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As much as I am happy with my 24GB N800 
if I were given a N810 WME, I'd probably take it and enjoy it. Charlotte is getting a nice piece of the WiMax action and it would mean that I'd be able to do some nice things around town with the IT (if the battery life improved just a titch).
The major hold off for me though with upgrading to any new IT at this point is the UI. That's not a part of this discussion, so I'll just keep it away.
That being said, never snatch back your hands at Nokia's gifts, you never know what other good things can be had in the package
if I were given a N810 WME, I'd probably take it and enjoy it. Charlotte is getting a nice piece of the WiMax action and it would mean that I'd be able to do some nice things around town with the IT (if the battery life improved just a titch).The major hold off for me though with upgrading to any new IT at this point is the UI. That's not a part of this discussion, so I'll just keep it away.
That being said, never snatch back your hands at Nokia's gifts, you never know what other good things can be had in the package
}:^)~
YARR!
Capt'n Co<no carrier>