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nthn is offline nthn
2017-04-05 , 22:22
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#21
Mark Shuttleworth just wrote that he was wrong and that his efforts to create something better were seen as creating fragmentation instead. Could it be? Has he finally realised? Will Canonical start contributing upstream?
 

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gerbick
2017-04-05 , 23:20
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#22
Originally Posted by nthn View Post
Mark Shuttleworth just wrote that he was wrong and that his efforts to create something better were seen as creating fragmentation instead. Could it be? Has he finally realised? Will Canonical start contributing upstream?
I see one miracle - Shuttleworth admitting something wrong. I won't expect more.
 

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theonelaw is offline theonelaw
2017-04-06 , 06:01
Posts: 671 | Thanked: 1,630 times | Joined on Aug 2010
#23
Originally Posted by nthn View Post
Mark Shuttleworth just wrote that he was wrong and that his efforts to create something better were seen as creating fragmentation instead....
Fail.

How I would note to Mark Shuttleworth:

Stated:
"I took the view that, if convergence was the future and we could deliver it as free software, that would be widely appreciated both in the free software community and in the technology industry, where there is substantial frustration with the existing, closed, alternatives available to manufacturers. I was wrong on both counts.
In the community, our efforts were seen fragmentation not innovation. And industry has not rallied to the possibility, instead taking a ‘better the devil you know’ approach to those form factors, or investing in home-grown platforms. What the Unity8 team has delivered so far is beautiful, usable and solid"
This is a flawed perspective in so many ways.
  • Community could have been onboarded.
  • That alone would have made it possible for
    Industry to have been persuaded.
  • Your alpha community is your best sales force.

The mistakes, more than just a single point of failure,
(or even this brief list)
are collectively what ended this effort before it even had a chance.
  • Killing Multitasking is like
    amputating your legs before a marathon.
    Easy to arrange, but how daft was that ?
    The lack of multitasking ended interest
    that could have driven much more developer participation.

  • More community is lost because
    the sourcecode was mollycoddled to the point
    where participation requires an act of god.
    We who would help are left standing outside the gate of
    'create yet another login account ++ password and then!
    - establish the credibility of who we are and what we would contribute'.
    That may fit the perversion of opensource you live by,
    but it fails the definition of the opensource others of us strive for:
    "The open-source model is a decentralized development model that
    encourages open collaboration."
  • Mir could have succeeded if egos involved had not
    pissed off everyone else in the linux universe with unbridled arrogance.

What the Unity8 team has delivered so far is glamorous crippleware
lacking the simple ability to cooperate with anything
created by anyone simply coding for the rest of the linux universe.

Touch was not true-spirited opensource,
Mir does not collaborate,
and UT cannot even chew gum and walk at the same time.


Not wanting to demean Shuttleworth or whoever:
as flawed as the effort was,
the fact that they even made the effort is truly appreciable.
Whatever else they may have earned,
maybe some of us can leave the derision behind now.
( Thanks for showing everyone the way not forward ? )


Posting it here for posterity,
knowing that it is safely hidden away
from the frothing hordes over on ubuntu.com

Edit:
I was wrong (and I am quite okay with admitting it!)
about Ubuntu ignoring their MIR issues,
and that alone gives hope for the future
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Last edited by theonelaw; 2017-04-06 at 06:48.
 

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railroadmaster is offline railroadmaster
2017-04-06 , 17:55
Posts: 1,082 | Thanked: 1,235 times | Joined on Apr 2010
#24
I think this is a good move, it means that MIR is dead. MIR created an unnecessary rift in the Linux ecosystem. In fact we should have started moving to Wayland years ago, the fact that we are just NOW beginning migrating over is pathetic. We should have started earlier and dealt with the 'pain' that such an architectural change brings rather than dealing with it now. In fact MIR probably caused some of this delay due to the uncertainty that it created for driver makers.
 

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railroadmaster is offline railroadmaster
2017-04-06 , 17:56
Posts: 1,082 | Thanked: 1,235 times | Joined on Apr 2010
#25
The whole concept of Linux distributions needs to come to an end. There can be different builds to different hardware configurations and needs but having thousands of linux distros is a waste of time and resources. It's unnecessary duplicated effort.
 

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kinggo is offline kinggo
2017-04-06 , 18:08
Posts: 943 | Thanked: 3,228 times | Joined on Jun 2010 @ Zagreb
#26
some people here will tell you that it's great to have a choice...........
becuse it's to difficult to change wallpaper and install some apps
and wayland........ well it works on jolla because everything is made with wayland in mind. But on desktops......... I don't see desktop without xwayland for a quite some time.
 

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MartinK is offline MartinK
2017-04-07 , 00:58
Posts: 1,548 | Thanked: 7,510 times | Joined on Apr 2010 @ Czech Republic
#27
Originally Posted by railroadmaster View Post
The whole concept of Linux distributions needs to come to an end. There can be different builds to different hardware configurations and needs but having thousands of linux distros is a waste of time and resources. It's unnecessary duplicated effort.
There is actually just a handful of "real" full fledged distros - those that are their own entity, with their own infrastructure, robust release process, support for upgrading between releases, actual QA, prompt handling of vulnerabilities, regular tracking of upstream releases, etc.

Then there are also a few specialized distros (embedded, security, forensic, etc.), but those are often variants of the few "real" distros.

Also, if you need something for enterprise use (10+ year release lifetime, professional support, API stability guarantees, software & hardware certification, etc.) - there is basically RHEL, maybe SLES - and that's it.

So hardly thousands of actual standalone distros.
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kinggo is offline kinggo
2017-04-07 , 07:35
Posts: 943 | Thanked: 3,228 times | Joined on Jun 2010 @ Zagreb
#28
And it's not so much about gazilion of distros, it's about apps that require the whole #%*/# DE as dependency. Or they also pull bunch of development tools.
 

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juiceme is offline juiceme
2017-04-07 , 15:53
Community Council | Posts: 4,920 | Thanked: 12,867 times | Joined on May 2012 @ Southerrn Finland
#29
Originally Posted by MartinK View Post
Also, if you need something for enterprise use (10+ year release lifetime, professional support, API stability guarantees, software & hardware certification, etc.) - there is basically RHEL, maybe SLES - and that's it.
OR you roll your own. Which is being done, and indeed by large companies. Even to the extremes that there are some very large companies that have three different LFS distributions (not to mention some other OS'es as a sidedish)

Why reinvent the wheel? Well, we are in the wheel-inventing business
 
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