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	qgil	2010-05-20 , 12:08
	Posts: 3,105 \| Thanked: 11,088 times \| Joined on Jul 2007 @ Mountain View (CA, USA)	#21

Originally Posted by dneary

we're talking about a self-sustainable community & project.

The website, shirts and stickers of this community have a logo that says "maemo.org". We are talking about the same scope, no worries. Let's continue with the beef of the discussions.

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	GeneralAntilles	2010-05-20 , 15:22
	Posts: 5,478 \| Thanked: 5,222 times \| Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL	#22

Originally Posted by dneary

Funny, I said what I meant, so perhaps we disagree on the scope? For me we're talking about more than web infrastructure, we're talking about a self-sustainable community & project.

It's back to that pesky disagreement of definitions, Dave. Shall we just say "Maemo Community" and call it a day?

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sjgadsby	2010-05-20 , 19:43
Posts: 5,335 \| Thanked: 8,187 times \| Joined on Mar 2007 @ Pennsylvania, USA	#23

Originally Posted by Texrat

Gadsby, is there any way to force some order here? Like make this thread the top one?

No, the dark magic employed by vBulletin in deciding which sticky appears topmost is beyond my ken.

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SD69	2010-05-22 , 03:53
Posts: 1,513 \| Thanked: 2,248 times \| Joined on Mar 2006 @ US	#24

Originally Posted by Stskeeps

While opening all the discarded Maemo code could be cool, it would be a waste of resources and time.

I am surprised. Why do you now have this opinion? How is it a waste? The community will no longer be blocked by closed components or dependent on Nokia.

Originally Posted by Stskeeps

MeeGo is ultra-portable as well and is designed for any sort of hardware

There is still much that is unknown about MeeGo. Best not for Maemo to rely upon it yet for all our future hopes.

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	GeneralAntilles	2010-05-22 , 04:03
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Originally Posted by SD69

I am surprised. Why do you now have this opinion? How is it a waste? The community will no longer be blocked by closed components or dependent on Nokia.

Because most of what's left is either useless, easily replaced or both, and the time required to open them is non-trivial and better spent elsewhere.

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SD69	2010-05-22 , 04:42
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles

Because most of what's left is either useless, easily replaced or both, and the time required to open them is non-trivial and better spent elsewhere.

You didn't answer the questions of "why" and "how" - just repeated the assertion.

It's a sad commentary when prominent maemo community members begin to summarily advocate against opening maemo. And may I point out that there is this often repeated behavior of soliciting suggestions, but then quickly dismissing out of hand if you don't agree with them.

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	Stskeeps	2010-05-22 , 06:29
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Originally Posted by SD69

I am surprised. Why do you now have this opinion? How is it a waste? The community will no longer be blocked by closed components or dependent on Nokia.

There is still much that is unknown about MeeGo. Best not for Maemo to rely upon it yet for all our future hopes.

Please keep my statements in context what Master of Gizmo was advocating. If one of the arguments were was to provide a maemo.org provided platform that is ported to a lot of different devices, I highly doubt I'd get through with asking for it.

There's already a lot of trademark dillution with the chinese devices running the Diablo deriative for instance.

I believe in focused open sourcing, what is needed. It would take several man months to walk through all of the open source without uncertain benefit in the long term.

I would rather prioritize opening up components that are hardware essential or getting them ported to MeeGo (telephony stack, battery management, etc etc).

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	GeneralAntilles	2010-05-22 , 12:47
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Originally Posted by SD69

You didn't answer the questions of "why" and "how" - just repeated the assertion.

I can't speak for Carsten on why he's changed his opinion (although I don't, in fact, believe he has). As for the how, well, I did answer it. It's a waste because the code that would be open sourced is either useless, easily replaced or both. As Carsten says, opening it up is a big time investment, so if the benefit is less than that time investment, how is it a good idea to invest that time. Especially as it can easily be spent elsewhere on things which actually do provide a net benefit.

Originally Posted by SD69

It's a sad commentary when prominent maemo community members begin to summarily advocate against opening maemo.

If this is what you believe the position is, then I don't think I'm going to have much success in dissuading you.

Originally Posted by SD69

And may I point out that there is this often repeated behavior of soliciting suggestions, but then quickly dismissing out of hand if you don't agree with them.

Not all suggestions are good suggestions, and Nokia isn't always the evil-company-that-does-things-for-no-good-reason many people here make it out to be.

A little intellectual honest from everybody involved would go a long way.

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	Stskeeps	2010-05-22 , 13:37
	Posts: 1,671 \| Thanked: 11,478 times \| Joined on Jun 2008 @ Warsaw, Poland	#29

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles

I can't speak for Carsten on why he's changed his opinion (although I don't, in fact, believe he has)

I haven't changed my mind. With MeeGo, Nokia has done exactly what we wanted them to do, a fully open source mobile platform governed by good open source principles (differentiation, hardware blobs excluded). The primary strength should go into opening components that strenghten this platform, as we can all go home if MeeGo fails.

I am against insisting all of Maemo legacy should be open sourced. I am for open sourcing bits where there is a direct benefit to the effort spent - no matter the target (Diablo community SSU, MeeGo or even Gentoo on 770). What I'm trying to say is the exact same thing as exists already with the open sourcing queue - help prioritising licensing change requests with good reasons we need higher. We'd be stuck in a chaos where valuable and valid change requests would be delayed forever otherwise.

There is nothing more sad for me than seeing licensing changes being met with the sound of crickets. Open source goes both ways - it isn't just about taking. It is about contribution back too.

Last edited by Stskeeps; 2010-05-22 at 13:43.

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	GeneralAntilles	2010-05-22 , 14:33
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Originally Posted by Stskeeps

I haven't changed my mind. With MeeGo, Nokia has done exactly what we wanted them to do, a fully open source mobile platform governed by good open source principles (differentiation, hardware blobs excluded). The primary strength should go into opening components that strenghten this platform, as we can all go home if MeeGo fails.

Sorry, I fell for SD69's false premise there. I didn't mean to imply you had changed your position.