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marmistrz is offline marmistrz
2018-02-07 , 09:27
Posts: 3,328 | Thanked: 4,476 times | Joined on May 2011 @ Poland
#21
Originally Posted by r0kk3rz View Post
There is nothing stopping anyone from curating an extras-repo on the Mer OBS, we've had this idea a number of times but it comes down to someone spending time curating and reacting to submission requests .etc
The same people who would have to curate the very same application for Harbour? People would just upload the sources, which would be built automatically. That's just shifting the release channel, the amount of work needed stays the same.

And in extras-devel there was no curation and everything worked just fine. Only you needed to ask for a permission to upload.
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r0kk3rz is offline r0kk3rz
2018-02-07 , 13:02
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#22
Originally Posted by Yaltaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa View Post
It's great to justify the opinions. Well, maybe the reasons were different, but the outcome is just the same.

I have the impression that I'm better off using Android. Why?
I'm using LineageOS and take all of my apps from F-Droid, so basically the only proprietary blobs on my device are the drivers, which is something I can't avoid.

I'm using an open-source keyboard, open-source IMs, open-source mail clients, open-source everything. Now see, how much of this is closed or unavailable on SailfishOS.

And I'm concerned about the privacy threats here too, especially when SailfishOS is to be bought by the Russian Rostelkom. Especially when it comes to things like the keyboard.
You know quite a large part of the 'proprietary closed source' Silica UI is stored in plain text qml files on the device, which you can inspect at your leisure. Which is how we can do things like patch manager
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pichlo is offline pichlo
2018-02-07 , 13:54
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#23
Originally Posted by r0kk3rz View Post
You know quite a large part of the 'proprietary closed source' Silica UI is stored in plain text qml files on the device, which you can inspect at your leisure. Which is how we can do things like patch manager
And quite a large part is not. Which is why Patchmanager is restricted to simple UI patches but no major functionality.

It would be nice if people realized that Jolla is just another company with their own agenda. Not the saviour they want it to be.
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Last edited by pichlo; 2018-02-07 at 14:00. Reason: typo
 

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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2018-02-07 , 14:17
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#24
Originally Posted by Yaltaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa View Post
I have the impression that I'm better off using Android. Why?
I'm using LineageOS and take all of my apps from F-Droid, so basically the only proprietary blobs on my device are the drivers, which is something I can't avoid.

I'm using an open-source keyboard, open-source IMs, open-source mail clients, open-source everything. Now see, how much of this is closed or unavailable on SailfishOS.

And I'm concerned about the privacy threats here too, especially when SailfishOS is to be bought by the Russian Rostelkom. Especially when it comes to things like the keyboard.
You have either not read or not understood the article the OP linked to in the first post.

Also, what software you use on Sailfish is pretty much up to you.
 

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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2018-02-07 , 14:32
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#25
Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
It would be nice if people realized that Jolla is just another company with their own agenda. Not the saviour they want it to be.
It just so happens that their agenda is pretty close to my personal needs. And that's what it's all about, right? Everybody should choose what suits him best. For my brother, that's the iPhone because all he cares about is a pretty UI and the cool. For me, it's a desktop GNU/Linux distribution that runs well on a mobile phone. For others, it's probably Android because they want all those integrated services and don't care too much about what's under the hood.

If you want an OS that's not backed by a company "with their own agenda" (which, for every company, must be to make money), you have to write your own. Given what's already there and what Sailfish is built upon, that's not an impossible task. However, I've been following this market since the ill-fated OpenMoko and I see how difficult it still is. OpenMoko, OpenZaurus, Maemo, MeeGo, Ubuntu Touch, Firefox OS, Moblin... So many failed projects.

It's incredible SailfishOS is still there, that Jolla still manages to push updates out. I really don't care what their "agenda" is. All I know is that would they go out of business, there wouldn't be a real alternative at the moment.
 

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MartinK is offline MartinK
2018-02-07 , 15:24
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#26
Originally Posted by r0kk3rz View Post
You know quite a large part of the 'proprietary closed source' Silica UI is stored in plain text qml files on the device, which you can inspect at your leisure. Which is how we can do things like patch manager
Sure, that's definitely an improvement over a closed source & immutable UI and already enables a lot of stuff via patches.

But without an open license and a functioning upstream, the ammount of contributions the community can do in the UI is limitted, as well as the ammount of people benefiting from the improvements (not everyone is using patches). Not to mention the (understandable) issues with patches no longer applying if the UI files change.

Also there is the issue of depriving related projects, such as Nemo, from useful code and libraries they could use, test, improve and build upon.
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elastic is offline elastic
2018-02-07 , 20:28
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#27
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
If you want an OS that's not backed by a company "with their own agenda" (which, for every company, must be to make money), you have to write your own. Given what's already there and what Sailfish is built upon, that's not an impossible task. However, I've been following this market since the ill-fated OpenMoko and I see how difficult it still is. OpenMoko, OpenZaurus, Maemo, MeeGo, Ubuntu Touch, Firefox OS, Moblin... So many failed projects.
Well at least Maemo an Ubuntu Touch (aka UBPorts) are still around and UBports made some big steps forward during the last months. It runs on quite a few devices now (running it on a Nexus 5) and their goal for the following months is releasing the new Xenial base with anbox - you can already test it (early alpha state though)
What the small team from ubports achieved in the last year is incredible and they implemented functionality the UT devs weren’t able for ages under the roof of the Ubuntu company ...

I’m running Sailfish (Jolla1) UBports (Nexus5) and Lineage (BQ X5) and they have all their pros and cons and under the hood they all need some Android stuff to run on top - so as long as there is the driver/hardware problem there can’t be a real fully open mobile OS

For now Sailfish is based on a company that wants make some money so they are selling licenses, for this some closed source components might be needed ...

UBports is a piece of software from geeks for geeks - at least the managed to get some financing through the patreons system

And Lineage took the ash from Cyanogen and kept a good community running - a brilliant approach to keep abandoned hardware running with up to date software and security patches - Cyanogen wanted to become more but struggled ...

... it has already been mentioned - it highly depends on you want and need ...
 

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m4r0v3r is offline m4r0v3r
2018-02-07 , 21:36
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#28
speaking of open sourcing the silica stuff I wonder what happened with that? when Jolla thought they were going ot effectively to bankrupt they spoke of open sourcing the code but haven't heard anything since.
 

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r0kk3rz is offline r0kk3rz
2018-02-07 , 22:00
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#29
Originally Posted by m4r0v3r View Post
speaking of open sourcing the silica stuff I wonder what happened with that? when Jolla thought they were going ot effectively to bankrupt they spoke of open sourcing the code but haven't heard anything since.
They've been talking about it for a lot longer than that.

By now anyone who thinks that Jolla will actually deliver on this is basically delusional, I don't see the board ever signing off on it even if the rest of the company wants it to happen.
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P@t is offline P@t
2018-02-08 , 03:48
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#30
Originally Posted by r0kk3rz View Post
They've been talking about it for a lot longer than that.

By now anyone who thinks that Jolla will actually deliver on this is basically delusional, I don't see the board ever signing off on it even if the rest of the company wants it to happen.
It may be too optimistic but I still hope that they will open up more parts, given all the push from the community, e.g. some apps (email for instance). However, not everything for sure...

The additional problem is that when Jolla did open the browser because they knew they needed more resources to get a better browser. Not many community people contributed back. And that justified likely some of the internal Jolla voices (mainly the investors) that asked to keep it closed as they mainly see the cost of opening. I am sure that the OS opening will be easier with much more community contribution which would show how useful it can be.
Outside of the porting to devices, and from my non-developer view, I mainly see a couple of guys actively participating in code contribution...
It is again a chicken and egg story because the community is probably small also because not enough stuff is opened.

Again I hope they will open some parts in 2018 because I fear the small community could get even smaller
 

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