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Posts: 255 | Thanked: 15 times | Joined on Oct 2007 @ United Kingdom
#21
Originally Posted by TA-t3 View Post
Out of curiosity, what's needed to be FON compatible?
You can buy a FON router for something like 45 Euros, and that gets you into the scheme. Your router then shares and you can access anybody elses'.

Or, like in the UK with BT, your ISP may actually alter the firmware of their free-of-charge routers to offer a FON channel. All you then have to do is sign up and activate the FON component.

Blissfully simple.
 
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#22
Originally Posted by rs-px View Post
Here's my view.

If I use wifi, I get a fairly constant connection provided I don't move around.

If I use 3G (I have a 3G phone), I often get a crappy connection with lotsa packet loss, even if my phone is showing full signal strength. It might be perfect if you're sitting in the heart of New York city but most people aren't Maybe this is caused by mobile signals having to travel from transmitters outside, while wifi transmitters are usually inside the room with you.

I read a comment on Slashdot from a guy working in the Telco industry that most insiders are writing off 3G, and see 3.5G as a stop-gap for 4G. Apparently 3G was just badly designed.

But, like I said, the key thing here is cost. I don't like paying by the minute for my Internet. Business users might be different but humble individuals find it oppressive.

I want it to be free. If you ask me, FON is a genius idea and very much in keeping with the modern community-oriented Internet -- I share my connection, and you share yours with me. Beautifully simple, and the technology is both cheap and proven.
Well, if I had a nickel for everytime inaccurate information was posted on Slashdot...

That aside, there is no 3G or 4G "standard." There are 2 competing families of cellular protocols, CDMA and GSM, controlled by their respective masters (Qualcomm vs the rest of the world), and championed by their users (Verizon+Sprint vs the rest of the world). Each is engaged in a constant game of oneupsmanship that everybody has started numbering by rough generations (2G, 2.5G, 3G, 3.5G, 4G...). AFAICT, rollout of the 3G GSM protocols (namely, UMTS+HSDPA) seems to have gone pretty well in Europe. Sprint and Verizon apparently haven't had nearly the uptake of their 3G network (EVDO) that they wanted, though frankly that could easily be chalked up to their expensive data plans for phones with limited options. AT&T has had similar luck w/UMTS here in the US, for largely the same reasons (combined with their rotten customer service and limited coverage areas). So to have some "industry insider" rant about how 3G is crap, is crap itself. It's more likely that the US dinocarriers are increasingly losing touch with their customers, and are blaming it on the networks (that they themselves built) being flawed in some way.
 

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#23
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Don't get me wrong: I'd really like to be as optimistic today as I was even weeks ago. But I'm presently very discouraged.
What has changed in the last few weeks to change your view?
 
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#24
Originally Posted by richie View Post
What has changed in the last few weeks to change your view?
Op ed pieces by industry analysts.
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#25
It's more likely that the US dinocarriers are increasingly losing touch with their customers, and are blaming it on the networks (that they themselves built) being flawed in some way.
Haha - I can't tell you how true that is.

I work for AT&T Mobility, before that Cingular, and before that, I was with (old) AT&T Wireless GSM. It's so very true that the carriers are trying to control everything - the article got everything spot on as far as U.S. carriers go - but in the act of spending so much effort on control, they're losing their grip on the market. The carriers are trying to dictate where everything heads in the future. Example: TV on your phone. Who wants to watch a 4 minute clip of a b-list show on a screen that's a quarter of the size of the NIT? Yet the carriers (AT&T & VZW mostly, Sprint to a large degree, thank God TMobile doesn't have 3G yet) push this because data usage is what drives revenue now that the market is so oversaturated. None of the carriers is trying to improve customer service to reduce churn (customers leaving) because their only concerned with profits overall. Look what's happenind with Sprint: so focused on the future of the industry that they've totally ignored their core function, and it's hurt them bigtime this quarter, and will for sometime in the future (regardless of WiMax).

What the article doesn't do is point to anything that can be done about the whole monopoly. For example: buy an unlocked phone from a 3rd party dealer (which is going to be nicer than carrier phones in most cases anyway) and activate without a contract. There might be a few features one misses, but it's going to be the same service.

And there's also the option to use an NIT with Gizmo or Skype to replace your mobile phone - which is what I plan on doing once I leave this company (which won't be too long).

Bottom line: from an "industry insider" (I so hate that term...), the cynicism directed at the U.S. mobile phone carriers is entirely justified.
 
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#26
The more things change, the more things stay the same in the good ol' US of A.

Before cells, way back in the days of twisted pair, we had "Ma Bell" or ATT. It was the only game in town.

Originally Posted by Ernestine
Here at the Phone Company we handle eighty-four billion calls a year. Serving everyone from presidents and kings to scum of the earth. (snort) We realize that every so often you can't get an operator, for no apparent reason your phone goes out of order [snatches plug out of switchboard], or perhaps you get charged for a call you didn't make. We don't care. Watch this [bangs on a switch panel like a cheap piano] just lost Peoria. (snort) You see, this phone system consists of a multibillion-dollar matrix of space-age technology that is so sophisticated, even we can't handle it. But that's your problem, isn't it ? Next time you complain about your phone service, why don't you try using two Dixie cups with a string. We don't care. We don't have to. (snort) We're the Phone Company!
(A popular Lilly Tomlin character in the late 60's)

Then in 1974 the U.S. Department of Justice initiated an antitrust suit against this telephone monopoly. Under the terms of a settlement finalized on January 8, 1982, "Ma Bell" agreed to divest its local exchange service operating companies, in return for a chance to go into the computer business.

AT&T Computer Systems was a bust but so were many of the "Baby Bells" that were spun off under the terms of the settlement. I find it very interesting that SBS bought AT&T which then ended up buying back the largest and most profitable of the "Baby Bell's" and some how leveraged it's way into Cingular...


Meet the new boss...

...same as the old boss.

We don't care. We don't have to. (snort) We're the Phone Company!

We may get fooled again.
 
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#27
Originally Posted by TA-t3 View Post
I own one of those USB modems. If I had a 3G phone I could just move the SIM card from the USB modem to the phone, with no extra cost (provided that I didn't already have a contract for the phone, of course).. the possibility of moving the SIM card to a phone is even mentioned in the carrier papers I got with the USB modem. I'm not in the UK though, if that makes a difference. However, I can't see any _technical_ problems with just moving the SIM card to a phone.
no technical reasons, only contractual. which they can't prove unless you make calls, but i wouldn't want to carry a phone i couldn't at least receive calls on
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#28
Bumping the thread with an external posting of my latest internal blog article:

As my tiny handful of dedicated followers no doubt noticed, this blog has been on a short hiatus. Blame holidays, reorganizations, workload, and procrastination... a deadly combination in any sense!

Anyway, time to get back on track. This is the second half of an article that contemplated the current state and possible potential of ubiquitous WiFi, particularly in the United States. To sum up, the desire definitely seems to be there, there are plenty of devices ready to capitalize on such an ecosystem, but there are numerous holes yet to be filled. Progress occurs in tidal fashion; one entity will surge to launch widespread WiFi while another retreats hastily from ambitious plans. It remains to be seen if there is any true, sustainable forward momentum. Intriguing projects such as the viral FON may offer the most hope, but depend on a great many advanced users in the ecosystem. Boingo also offers some promise but needs broader coverage.

So let's assume that worst case occurs and ubiquitous WiFi sputters. Nokia is looking to a future where handheld computers such as the N810 are prevalent. If WiFi isn't there to fully support them, how will such products connect?

In the case of the N810 and its brethren, one alternative is currently available: virtually tethering to a bluetooth-enabled phone and using it as a highly-mobile modem. I've done this with my N800 and N810 numerous times and for the most part satisfactorily. GPRS has been analogous in performance to a 56K PC modem, which while not stellar can get the job done in a pinch. As cellular data offerings increase in speed, this option grows correspondingly more attractive. The downside remains one of cost, and there is currently much variety (to put it politely) in pricing models across the globe.

One reason WiFi has sputtered in some instances is more political than technical: phone service providers have had difficulty wrapping a bu$ine$$ model around it. Each would of course prefer that your data consumption begin and end at their trough rather than in a wide-open hunter-gatherer WiFi ecosystem. That's why some analysts believe that 3G's successors, HSDPA and the like, have greater potential for near-term traction than Wifi. Check out this opinion piece on the UK's The Register; while the tone of the article isn't exactly objective, it's currently difficult to argue with the ultimate conclusion. Data services provided by the telcos have a better chance of widespread, uninterrupted usage than WiFi in its current state, at least in some areas.

However, cost remains a significant obstacle for the typical consumer. Low-price, flat-rate plans simply must be more available for the cellphone broadband utopia to manifest.

There may be a driver for just that need, too: WiMAX. All but written-off as recently as the end of 2007 by many analysts, the beleagured technology is now showing signs of renewed life, in upcoming services such as Sprint's XOHM in the US. Nokia has announced plans for an N810 WiMAX-enabled variant, to be provided by Sprint. Even if WiMAX suffers the same mixed fate as WiFi, there's reason to believe that at the very least this effort could further encourage the cell service carriers to improve their data plans' performance and cost. A successful Wifi/WiMAX (each has its own sphere of use) hybrid infrastructure should really put some fear into the more conventional telcos!

This industry is still immature in many respects and current drawbacks won't resolve overnight. But at least there are signs of improvement, both in services and products. With its viable mix of technologies supported on current and future devices, it looks like Nokia for one is definitely poised to capitalize on whatever form the future mobile data landscape takes.
EDIT: typos created by formatting conversion fixed. I think.
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Last edited by Texrat; 2008-01-16 at 17:57.
 

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#29
Originally Posted by devaler View Post
And that's why you'll see many consumers bemoan the fact that the N800/N810 have no built-in cellular. (I currently do not bemoan it)
That's right.

Like you, I don't WANT the N8x0 to have built-in cellular because I don't see the point of having a second SIM to juggle around, or another subscription plan to pay for.

Case in point: some of us have unlimited data plans with our voice plans, usually as a company phone. The last thing I want is to have to switch my SIM from one device to another (don't even get me started on how useless a TwinSIM is, i.e single MSISDN, dual SIMs) and have my data all over the place, out of sync.

Right now, my contacts and calendar data stays nicely on my phone, and my N800 connects to the internet using BT DUN to HSDPA/UMTS.

My phone stays as my phone, and my tablet stays as an accessory to the phone. That's why laptops with built-in slots for HSDPA haven't exactly been flying off the shelves.
 
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#30
Apparently, I missed that discussion. Anyway.


There are a few fundamental problems about ubiquitous wi-fi.

1) Practical: it's not regulated (the 2.4GHz band is full already), nobody can prevent 5 of your neighbours to use the available spectrum for their home routers.

2) Economical: deploying a network is expensive. Yet, the main drive behind wi-fi is price, how is that going to be financed?

3) Technical: wifi is designed to work on a home router. There is no handover and no identification protocol. Try having one client very close and one at the limit of coverage and it breaks. It's not designed for phoning: try having two sip conversation on the same cell and one is going to suffer.


And since this is about cellphone carriers: the only reason wifi exists (beyond home networking) is carriers greed. If you had a reasonable 3G data plan, you would not even consider using wifi. You would have ubiquitous broadband coverage that actually works.
 
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