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2008-09-08
, 08:05
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Posts: 3,790 |
Thanked: 5,718 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Vienna, Austria
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#22
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Originally Posted by coffeedrinker
Great; exclude *all* repositories except extras/diablo, and that's what (my estimation) 99% of the users see as software they can install. (no maemo mapper, for example... who would want that, after all?)
Having multiple respos allows me to exclude stuff that I don't want to see by simply not adding that repo.
Being able to exclude stuff you see and think is not interesting is a luxury feature. Never knowing that all these applications even exist is reality for most people.
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2008-09-08
, 08:09
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#23
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Originally Posted by benny1967
Application manager UI improvements and Extras categorization improvements are the correct answers to that problem, anyway.
Being able to exclude stuff you see and think is not interesting is a luxury feature. Never knowing that all these applications even exist is reality for most people.
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2008-09-08
, 08:09
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Posts: 1,208 |
Thanked: 1,028 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
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#24
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
This is understandable. But packaging is quite simple once you get in to it (well anything is
Well, not all of them. Some either don't have the packaging experience, don't feel that their stuff is quite up-to-snuff, or just plain don't have the time. I'm sure any of them would appreciate all the assistance they can get.
)I am willing to package some high quality games for extras. Author of the port could speak up and say that here is popular game, which i'd like to get into extras, .deb and here is the source and here is the modifications made.
Last edited by mikkov; 2008-09-08 at 08:12.
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2008-09-08
, 08:27
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#25
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Originally Posted by mikkov
Well, with most things, of course.
This is understandable. But packaging is quite simple once you get in to it (well anything is
But it does take time to get familiar with it and figure out all the little intricacies, not difficult, but time consuming, and time is always limited.Actually, you raise an interesting point offering to help package. Debian has packaging teams, do they not? Couldn't we get some interested parties together who'd be willing to either help with or do the packaging for interested developers? A maemo.org Packaging Team, if you will.
Last edited by GeneralAntilles; 2008-09-08 at 08:30.
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2008-09-08
, 08:33
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Posts: 3,790 |
Thanked: 5,718 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Vienna, Austria
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#26
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Originally Posted by Frank Banul
No.
I think actually what you are saying is "Make it easier for programmers to put things in extras"
Originally Posted by Frank Banul
No.
Or what you might be saying is "Hey how can I help out?"
What I was saying was rant, rant, rant, rant. It wasn't meant to be constructive. But... Wait and see (below), I'm in a better mood today
Originally Posted by Frank Banul
One time for one person vs. each time somebody wants to install it for each and every user.
This should result in higher quality installs but it's an additional hoop that has be be jumped through.
Originally Posted by Frank Banul
Do you think it would be possible to delegate this kind of work to people who don't know anything (or much) about coding?
Get involved, find your favorite program and contact the programmer. Offer to get it into the extras repository. It's a community effort for many programs. In my case, the thrill was writing my application, not packaging, adding icons, uploading, sign, etc.
Actually, I think it would be fun trying to make an already working piece of software perfect by adding a cool icon, getting it into extras, adding translations etc. ... (Translations, for example, is something I really love to do and is extremely underrated in this community where everyone can read english menus.)
It would be even more fun to do this together with others.
I just don't know if it can be done by anybody else than a programer. Take me as an example: I used to do some programing work 10-15 years ago in Windows, but never learned C-like languages. Now, I run Gentoo GNU/Linux, have no knowledge about Debian or Debian-style packaging. I can write short shell scripts for my own use, I do compile software every now and then that's not in Gentoo's portage, but if it fails to compile I usually am unable to find the reason, let alone correct what's wrong.
How difficult would it be for me to help getting some *deb from garage and/or a private homepage into extras? How steep is the learning curve? Are there step-by-step instructions for people like me who are not familiar with the Debian-terms?
OTOH: Given that so many apps are still either not in extras at all or did not make it to extras/diablo (which equals "not being in extras at all" for most users): Do the developers of these applications even want people to help them promoting their software? Maybe they're just proud of hosting repositories of their own...?
Originally Posted by Frank Banul
Maybe it would be cool to have a place where people who do the development work just say: "Hey, I finished my application, but I just don't want to do the translations. Also, I don't yet have an icon. Also, can somebody pls. do the packaging? It bores me to death." - I could go there and do the German translations for whatever weird software, somebody more gifted would do the artwork etc. - Just try calling for help in this forum. I remember berto did this for Vagalume in his blog (asking for translations) and it seems he was successful.
I would have jumped at the offer.
| The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to benny1967 For This Useful Post: | ||
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2008-09-08
, 08:38
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#27
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Originally Posted by benny1967
Your qualifications sound perfect. Get started here and here.
I just don't know if it can be done by anybody else than a programer. Take me as an example: I used to do some programing work 10-15 years ago in Windows, but never learned C-like languages. Now, I run Gentoo GNU/Linux, have no knowledge about Debian or Debian-style packaging. I can write short shell scripts for my own use, I do compile software every now and then that's not in Gentoo's portage, but if it fails to compile I usually am unable to find the reason, let alone correct what's wrong.
Originally Posted by benny1967
I like the packaging team idea. Just be sure to remember that it's no good unless a developer of any given program is fulling behind the packaging.
Maybe it would be cool to have a place where people who do the development work just say: "Hey, I finished my application, but I just don't want to do the translations. Also, I don't yet have an icon. Also, can somebody pls. do the packaging? It bores me to death." - I could go there and do the German translations for whatever weird software, somebody more gifted would do the artwork etc. - Just try calling for help in this forum. I remember berto did this for Vagalume in his blog (asking for translations) and it seems he was successful.
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2008-09-08
, 10:39
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Posts: 3,404 |
Thanked: 4,474 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ Germany
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#28
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I like the packaging team idea as well. Getting access to upload to maemo-extras is a nontrivial process involving GPG keys. Many developers don't have the will or time to go through it.
For Debian and Ubuntu there are package maintainers who pick up software and do the packaging. The same could be applied to maemo-extras IMHO. This could also lead to a greater acceptance of maemo-extras and better packaging quality.
That, together with UI improvements in the AppManager would be a good start.
For Debian and Ubuntu there are package maintainers who pick up software and do the packaging. The same could be applied to maemo-extras IMHO. This could also lead to a greater acceptance of maemo-extras and better packaging quality.
That, together with UI improvements in the AppManager would be a good start.
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2008-09-08
, 14:35
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Posts: 1,012 |
Thanked: 817 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ France
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#29
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Hum ...
I'll will make no comment about uploading or not to extras ...
But i just want to inform you that some tools exist to do it easily, mainly for python developpers ... gene.cash you can look at py2deb ... if you want some docs that isn't available yet (but will be after the summit), do not hesitate to contact me.
I'll will make no comment about uploading or not to extras ...
But i just want to inform you that some tools exist to do it easily, mainly for python developpers ... gene.cash you can look at py2deb ... if you want some docs that isn't available yet (but will be after the summit), do not hesitate to contact me.
__________________
Benoît HERVIER, Khertan
KhtEditor - Sdist_Maemo - Khweeteur - PyPackager - KhtSimpleText - KhtNotes - KhtBMA - Wleux - and more ...
Benoît HERVIER, Khertan
KhtEditor - Sdist_Maemo - Khweeteur - PyPackager - KhtSimpleText - KhtNotes - KhtBMA - Wleux - and more ...
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2008-09-08
, 14:40
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Posts: 398 |
Thanked: 301 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
@ Texas
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#30
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Originally Posted by benny1967
Probably the hardest thing to do would be to setup a scratchbox environment, which I'm not completely sure is necessary (translations and icons would at least require a unix type environment). But after that, it's signing, understanding some scripting if things don't quite work out right. Uploading, check the results, promote. I've got notes at home and would be happy to offer you assistance if you want to try this out, although my experience ends at going through the process for my single program. There are step by step instructions on https://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras
Do you think it would be possible to delegate this kind of work to people who don't know anything (or much) about coding?
Actually, I think it would be fun trying to make an already working piece of software perfect by adding a cool icon, getting it into extras, adding translations etc. ... (Translations, for example, is something I really love to do and is extremely underrated in this community where everyone can read english menus.)
It would be even more fun to do this together with others.
Originally Posted by benny1967
I'm guessing it took me a week or so of working on it an hour or so at night to get my application in extras. But I had never done anything like this before.
How difficult would it be for me to help getting some *deb from garage and/or a private homepage into extras? How steep is the learning curve? Are there step-by-step instructions for people like me who are not familiar with the Debian-terms?
Originally Posted by benny1967
I took about almost a year of distributing my app as a .deb before I finally got around to deciding on uploading to extras. It was as I think has been covered, my app works, I like it, no one is complaining, why spend the extra time on formalities? I guess now someone is complaining.
OTOH: Given that so many apps are still either not in extras at all or did not make it to extras/diablo (which equals "not being in extras at all" for most users): Do the developers of these applications even want people to help them promoting their software? Maybe they're just proud of hosting repositories of their own...?
Originally Posted by benny1967
This would be cool, maybe another section in the ITT Developers forum?
Maybe it would be cool to have a place where people who do the development work just say: "Hey, I finished my application, but I just don't want to do the translations. Also, I don't yet have an icon. Also, can somebody pls. do the packaging? It bores me to death."
Frank
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