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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2009-04-27 , 19:22
Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,222 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#21
Originally Posted by krisse View Post
The N97 has both 32 gigabytes built-in and a memory card slot, whereas the 5800 only has the memory card slot (plus a small amount of internal flash memory). Officially you could expand the N97's memory to 48 gigabytes, but unofficially (if the 32 gigabyte card works) then it could go up to 64 gigabytes in total.
This is a somewhat interesting question. Linux devices with SDHC support will automatically support SDXC as long as you use something other than exFAT. Although I doubt Symbian is currently capable of addressing all 24 memory bits, I wonder how likely Nokia will be to push an update to provide SDXC support on existing S60 devices (since it's a software-only change). What was the history with the SD to SDHC transition?

Originally Posted by krisse View Post
The N97 processor will probably be faster, but no one is totally sure though as the confirmed production model processor specs haven't been released yet.
I keep hearing ~600MHz ARM11 (which is really disappointing). Better than the 5800's 369MHz ARM11, but no OMAP3.

Originally Posted by krisse View Post
Yeah, the Omnia HD looks really good, it's the first mainstream phone to shoot video in high definition. It's the same platform as the 5800 but with a better screen (same res but physically larger, brighter and more sensitive). On top of that the Omnia HD uses (I think!) OMAP3 and has graphics hardware.
Yes, the OmniaHD is OMAP3, which (assuming the rumors about the ARM11 in the N97 are correct) is going to kick the pants off the N97.

Originally Posted by krisse View Post
However, this hardware comes at a price of course, and the Omnia HD is likely to be very expensive.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the OmniaHD breach $800.
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krisse is offline krisse
2009-04-27 , 20:22
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#22
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
What was the history with the SD to SDHC transition?
Pretty similar to Maemo, it was added via firmware to many existing models as well as appearing on new models.

Usually the official limits are far too conservative, and much larger cards will work albeit not as reliably. My first S60 device (S60 1st Edition!) had an official limit of 128 megabytes, but it worked with cards up to 1 gigabyte though it was a bit slow.


I keep hearing ~600MHz ARM11 (which is really disappointing). Better than the 5800's 369MHz ARM11, but no OMAP3.
It may (or may not) have graphics hardware which would make it look a lot more impressive than the 5800. The N95, N93, N82 and E90 had graphics hardware with ARM11 as the main CPU.

The reason I suspect it might is because the N97 has been advertised right from the beginning as N-Gage compatible, but to run N-Gage games at 640x360 instead of the current devices' QVGA it would need a bit more oomph.

The 5800 comes with a cut-down version of an N-Gage game, Bounce, but it is very jerky compared to the original version. That's probably why the 5800 isn't getting any more N-Gage titles as it simply can't cope with 3D graphics at full resolution.

I could be wrong though, maybe the N97 won't have graphics hardware, and will just run the existing games as QVGA in some kind of lower res mode.



Yes, the OmniaHD is OMAP3, which (assuming the rumors about the ARM11 in the N97 are correct) is going to kick the pants off the N97.
It'll certainly outclass any of its rivals technically, but whether that translates to higher sales remains to be seen.

If it goes over the $800 barrier as you predict (and I agree with you) it would have a very hard time making an impact beyond just technophiles.

The one thing it does mean though is that it would be very plausible for Nokia to do an OMAP3 Symbian device, and I'd expect to see them do it sooner or later simply to keep up with Samsung. Samsung has recently taken the lead technically with S60, they were the first to do an 8mp S60 model, the Samsung Innov8, and Nokia is now bringing out their own 8mp called the N86. From what I hear, Samsung knows that Nokia dominates S60 so they have to make an impact with real "standout" devices which get peoples attention.
Last edited by krisse; 2009-04-27 at 20:28.
 
GeneralAntilles's Avatar
GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2009-04-27 , 20:35
Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,222 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#23
Originally Posted by krisse View Post
Usually the official limits are far too conservative, and much larger cards will work albeit not as reliably. My first S60 device (S60 1st Edition!) had an official limit of 128 megabytes, but it worked with cards up to 1 gigabyte though it was a bit slow.
Well, the official limits usually only relate to what was available for testing when it was certified. The limits that should be paid attention to are the spec limits. Usually, anyway, but since the SDHC 32GB limit is purely artificial. . . .

Originally Posted by krisse View Post
It may (or may not) have graphics hardware which would make it look a lot more impressive than the 5800. The N95, N93, N82 and E90 had graphics hardware with ARM11 as the main CPU.
I can't imagine them shipping their flagship phone without some sort of accelerated 3D.

Originally Posted by krisse View Post
If it goes over the $800 barrier as you predict (and I agree with you) it would have a very hard time making an impact beyond just technophiles.
Actually, it's not even the OMAP3 that's the really big impact. That camera and that giant screen can't be cheap, either.

Originally Posted by krisse View Post
The one thing it does mean though is that it would be very plausible for Nokia to do an OMAP3 Symbian device, and I'd expect to see them do it sooner or later simply to keep up with Samsung. Samsung has recently taken the lead technically with S60, they were the first to do an 8mp S60 model, the Samsung Innov8, and Nokia is now bringing out their own 8mp called the N86. From what I hear, Samsung knows that Nokia dominates S60 so they have to make an impact with real "standout" devices which get peoples attention.
I can't imagine Nokia waiting much longer for a Cortex-based Symbian device. With the Pre, the OmniaHD, and likely an iPhone sooner rather than later the market will outpace them very quickly.
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krisse is offline krisse
2009-04-27 , 21:05
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#24
I can't imagine Nokia waiting much longer for a Cortex-based Symbian device. With the Pre, the OmniaHD, and likely an iPhone sooner rather than later the market will outpace them very quickly.
Which market?

The 5800 has a 369mhz processor, no graphics hardware, and it now apparently has a 20% share of worldwide touchscreen phone sales.

Clearly a lot of people care more about getting a particular bundle of features for a low price, and don't really pay any attention to raw specs.

But you're right that if Nokia wants the expensive end of the smartphone market they would have to bring out something with a stronger processor, simply to replicate the graphical effects that other highest end devices would have.


Actually, it's not even the OMAP3 that's the really big impact. That camera and that giant screen can't be cheap, either.
On the Omnia HD? Yeah, the whole thing seems very very expensive.

What interests me though is that if it sells well then the same platform would have succeeded both on mid-range devices (5800) and expensive ones (Omnia HD), and from the top two manufacturers. That would be a big boost to S60 as a touchscreen platform.
 
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Cadabena is offline Cadabena
2009-04-27 , 21:26
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#25
Krisse, just wondering, how does the 5800 do with apps running in the background? For instance, if running last.fm (through Mobbler, I presume), does it carry on playing while you go off to browse the web? And is there a messenger that can cope with MSN that alerts you when there's a new message, while you're doing something else? Or talking to someone on a messenger while listening to your last.fm library? I know my whole post's pretty much been an example... do you see what I'm asking? I know I'm not all too clear...
 
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krisse is offline krisse
2009-04-28 , 14:01
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#26
Originally Posted by Cadabena View Post
Krisse, just wondering, how does the 5800 do with apps running in the background? For instance, if running last.fm (through Mobbler, I presume), does it carry on playing while you go off to browse the web?
The 5800 has full multitasking, so yes you can run many apps at once.

All Symbian S60 devices have always had full multitasking, the Symbian OS was built with that in mind. You just hold down the menu key and it works exactly like the task switcher on any computer (you can see the task switcher in my original post). Everything in the background carries on running, the switcher just chooses which app to display on the screen.

The only limit on multitasking is the amount of free RAM a device has after startup, all active applications have to fit within that RAM limit, but that's true for all computing devices.


And is there a messenger that can cope with MSN that alerts you when there's a new message, while you're doing something else? Or talking to someone on a messenger while listening to your last.fm library? I know my whole post's pretty much been an example... do you see what I'm asking? I know I'm not all too clear...
Yes, you can do both those things at once, and more too.

You can run as many apps as you want within the RAM limit.
 

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jolouis is offline jolouis
2009-04-28 , 15:07
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#27
Which market?

The 5800 has a 369mhz processor, no graphics hardware, and it now apparently has a 20% share of worldwide touchscreen phone sales.

Clearly a lot of people care more about getting a particular bundle of features for a low price, and don't really pay any attention to raw specs.
I think this is a good point that's been proven a few times in the last few years... technologies have reached the point where often "bigger and more powerful" != "better", as there's still huge markets for more cost effective and relatively useful devices. I mean realistically there's still a HUGE market for traditional... "non-smart" phones, especially in times when the economy is a bit rough. And I think devices like the 5800 show that Nokia is aware of that market space and trying to keep up with it. Sure, they can make super fancy sports cars, but at the same time they know a lot of the current business is going to be made selling regular old cars that have a really comfy seat and some "modern luxury features" to make the end user feel "cool and up to date".

The same thing happened with consoles... XBox 360 and PS3 vs Wii... look at the numbers, the overall market sales, and the hardware specs. Doing something relatively cool for a lower price pays off big time if you understand the market your after.

The underlying point here is that if you look at all the information we have with current products, including the N97, it definitely would appear that Nokia's doing a product shift... migrating the formerly "high end" stuff into a more mainstream market, and, it sounds like, trying to leverage something new (Maemo devices wink wink nugde nugde know what I mean?) into the "power user" sector. After all, making the N97 a little gentler on the hardware specs side makes a lot more sense with a new generation of Maemo OMAP3 devices arriving soon, that it would to have the N97 and like sitting at almost exactly the same point and trying to compete for very similiar market space.
 
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krisse is offline krisse
2009-04-28 , 15:33
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#28
I mean realistically there's still a HUGE market for traditional... "non-smart" phones, especially in times when the economy is a bit rough.
Something like 85% - 90% of total phone sales are non-smart phones, it's by far the most popular category. I don't know if most tech journalists realise this though... ;-)

Incidentally, Nokia's just done a WebKit browser for their non-smart phones too, so they're catching up with more expensive devices and may become (or already be) the main way of accessing the internet, especially in poorer communities where landlines, PCs and electricity supplies are scarce.


, it sounds like, trying to leverage something new (Maemo devices wink wink nugde nugde know what I mean?) into the "power user" sector. After all, making the N97 a little gentler on the hardware specs side makes a lot more sense with a new generation of Maemo OMAP3 devices arriving soon, that it would to have the N97 and like sitting at almost exactly the same point and trying to compete for very similiar market space.
I would agree with you if they make a Maemo phone. If the new Maemo device isn't a phone though, I can't really see it providing a proper alternative to the N97.
 
mobiledivide is offline mobiledivide
2009-04-28 , 15:47
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#29
Nokia in their marketing for the 5800 said it was a device designed to appeal to the mass market and to move touch screen devices out of the "luxury" side of the market. It was not really designed to compete with the top end of the market. I can't seem to find a link right now.
 
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Un27Pee is offline Un27Pee
2009-04-28 , 16:57
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#30
i will love to see a little wider screen on the 5800, i am in looking to retire my N95 but not having two devices in both pants, the Omnia HD and touch HD2 are a competitive devices that the N97 will have to face unless the price tag beats them we will have to wait and see.
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