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andy80 is offline andy80
2009-07-31 , 07:27
Posts: 131 | Thanked: 150 times | Joined on Jan 2007 @ Pistoia, Italy
#21
Originally Posted by silvermountain View Post
So I was listening to the latest episode of The Linux Actionshow podcast today (Season 10, episode 9) and even though I am far from a Linux expert I found the following interesting e I want to see if I was even close to understand what was said

Based on their discussion, about the NITs, they said that Freemantle is the operating layer of the next NIT - but after that it will not be continued as after that Nokia is continuing with QT.

Does that mean that Freemantle in essence is being developed to run on N900 - and that's it?
Nokia will switch from Gtk to Qt, but this doesn't mean that Gtk will be unusable. It's at a very good stage at the moment, surely better than what is Qt for now, since they're still working on the Maemo/Qt.

Gtk will be only community-supported like, for example, is Python support now. This doesn't mean you cannot use it to develop something interesting, look for example the grat job is doing that guy with gPodder or the Canola team.

I personally do prefear Qt toolkit, but it's just my own opinion, and I'm very happy about this switch.

I think that the next N*** will be a good product

Well I cannot be sure about this, but.... I trust them
 

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flareup is offline flareup
2009-07-31 , 09:14
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#22
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
Plain ol' consumers, real world users will start thinking their purchasing strategy when they see a new device announced with a price tag attached.
yes, but reviews count for a great deal in an over-populated market sector (phones) and reviewers will point out that the UI/OS is basically redundant. "Consumers" aren't stupid, and in hard times they tend to get even smarter.
 
vvaz is offline vvaz
2009-07-31 , 10:41
Posts: 356 | Thanked: 231 times | Joined on Oct 2007
#23
Originally Posted by YoDude View Post
BTW, what is a good upgrade strategy for an existing NIT user?
Don't know if there is universal "good upgrade strategy". I can only say what I will do: everything depends on price *and* if N900 hardware will be supported by Harmattan.

If starting price > $400 or hardware future not clear I will skip and wait for Harmattan. My aging N800 is still good enough for most of my uses.
 

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Peet is offline Peet
2009-07-31 , 10:47
Posts: 302 | Thanked: 254 times | Joined on Oct 2007
#24
Originally Posted by Stskeeps View Post
<...> Nokia is saying in Harmattan, - Qt is the toolkit we support/develop/etc. And I personally think that's a great choice to make. Targetting Qt specifically instead of a weird combo of Gtk+, with Hildon widgets on top, can only be a benefit - and allow us to put the Maemo platform (system daemons, APIs, etc) and our applications on a lot of different things - Maemo GTK+ is a bad mess for portability.
Why don't you say what you really think.

What interests me is how much of this full-on switch of loyalty (for the lack of better word) is down to Nokia's desperation to replace the much-maligned Symbian mobile phone platform as fast as they possibly can and their takeover of Qt software, and how much is down to Nokia's lack of control or lack of faith in the direction and abilities of GTK and Hildon?

I am not arguing the decision to switch per se; it must've been made at least a year or two before Maemo users and ordinary developers were told about it... Ergo, I hope Nokia succeeds while managing to keep the new system open enough.
 
Peet is offline Peet
2009-07-31 , 11:24
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#25
Originally Posted by Jaffa View Post
Which is why the effort - and results - of Nokia and the Mer team are to be lauded in providing a continued mechanism for supporting out-of-date hardware in a commercially realistic way.
Commercially realistic?

a) Most if not all of the commercial developers are porting their apps (Skype, Gizmo, Flash etc.) to Fremantle and those apps will be compatible with Mer as well?

b) Some of the commercial apps will be ported to Fremantle and they will be compatible with Mer as well, the rest will still work despite linking to old Chinook/Diablo-era libraries?

c) All or some of the currently available (but generally aging) commercial apps will continue working under Mer thanks to compatibility layers with the old Chinook/Diablo platform, but the commercial developers will have nothing to do with Mer compatibility?

d) ??


Originally Posted by silvermountain View Post
Even a community as active as this can't possibly juggle updates and ports between, what, five?, OS versions (Diablo/Chinook/Mer/Fremantle/Harmattan).

I guess some would phase out - but aren't people still using Chinook and maybe there will still be users clinging on to Diablo after Mer comes out. It still feels like efforts would/could be spread very thin.
I have a feeling that the majority of N8x0 users will stick with whatever was installed in their tablet or what they can flash on it using the Official Update Applet; i.e Chinook or Diablo. Most MS-Windows users certainly, and probably many Linux users too.
 
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javispedro is offline javispedro
2009-07-31 , 11:28
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#26
Originally Posted by deadmalc View Post
Personally I'd like to see a tablet orientated kde4, which I am hoping this is essentially what Harmatten will be. (from a user point of view not a developer)
Doubt that; Gnome and KDE not only differ in toolkit, and while switching toolkits is something you can force yourself to, switching philosophies is not.

I personally expect we're going to see what Mark Shuttleworth's once dreamt: QT/Gnome (Mobile).
 
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qgil is offline qgil
2009-07-31 , 12:04
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#27
Originally Posted by flareup View Post
yes, but reviews count for a great deal in an over-populated market sector (phones) and reviewers will point out that the UI/OS is basically redundant. "Consumers" aren't stupid, and in hard times they tend to get even smarter.
Reviewers are actually not that different from users: they pay attention specially when there is some product with known specs and price tag - something to look at and play with.

Let's see what they say when the announcements are made.

Of course consumers aren't stupid! Even less the potential Maemo users, quite demanding and well informed customers - with plenty of choices at hand. We are working to have something good for them (for you).

The UI/OS is not redundant: is evolving. One day Maemo 5 final will be launched with a device, and this will be the best OS/UI and the best device Maemo will have done. Of course we keep working on further releases and products that should bring better OS/UI and better devices, better developer offering, better compability with other platforms etc.

Also note that you are mixing 2 things: change of toolkit with hardware incompatibilities. Fremantle is not officially supported in OMAP2 devices (N810m N800) because we concluded that Maemo 5 was too much for that hardware if commercially supported. In comparison, the GTK+ and Qt toolkits are very similar in terms of hardware demands. They sit too high in the platform and, as we are insisting, the middleware underneath stays more or less the same, of course with significant version upgrades and enhancements.

So the discussion of Harmattan running or not on the next device has actually little to do with the toolkit officially supported and more on other aspects like what features will Harmattan bring, demanding what hardware capabilities and at what point of time.

Discussing this paragraph above when there is not even a Maemo 5 device announced is an exercise of pure Summer entertainment. (which is fine for the Summer, don't get me wrong)
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VDVsx is offline VDVsx
2009-07-31 , 12:32
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#28
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
In comparison, the GTK+ and Qt toolkits are very similar in terms of hardware demands. )
Historically Qt has proven to be faster than GTK+ on slow and limited hardware, as example see the former Qtopia distro in OpenMoko. But of course a lot of people disagree with that point
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Jaffa is offline Jaffa
2009-07-31 , 12:37
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#29
Originally Posted by Peet View Post
Commercially realistic?
i.e. it's commercially unrealistic to expect Nokia to constrain future devices' software by spending lots on supporting previous generation hardware.

However, they can garner goodwill (which translates into potential future sales) by assisting with the community taking on the work of maintaining - and enhancing - previous devices' OSes.
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flareup is offline flareup
2009-07-31 , 13:31
Posts: 225 | Thanked: 68 times | Joined on Feb 2006
#30
thanks for taking the time to reply qgil

Originally Posted by qgil View Post
One day Maemo 5 final will be launched with a device
that's the day we're all waiting for!
 
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