Ehm, well, you could use that trick to make a great reply to Jaffa's post instead of ranting here

Remember when we had that topic a while back about Maemo being more in the face of users who aren't the historically-typical audience? This would be one of those validations for that discussion.

I personally would love to see a Mer section, just as there is/was one for the previous OS versions. It makes sense from a community standpoint, and even moreso from a marketing one.

Whether numbers validate that or not I don't know. I know marketing and consumer-tech engagement. Open hands win open hearts.

Perhaps this will be a good topic for NEW Maemo Community Council?

Some discussions with Stskeeps and lbt on IRC today suggested that a good time might be during the summit, when there's another push for user friendliness of Mer.

I really don't see this as a power-holding feature, the people being accused are some of the greatest proponents and supporters of Mer, vs. people who just like the opportunity to rant and moan about power-hungry fascists who "control" maemo.org. Who've possibly never even submitted a bug, a line of code, or a theme to the alternative OS we're discussing.

The lack of a Mer subsection was Stskeeps' decision when the forum was restructured. As Mer approaches end-user suitability, and grows in its reach, that decision should be revisited as appropriate; but some of the attitudes expressed in this thread are mind-boggling.

Rationally discussing the pros and cons of a Mer sub-section shouldn't descend into a mess of name-calling from foolish trolls, and neither should it be a "decision" of the council (new or not!).

Jaffa, I was merely suggesting that since the main proponents of not having a MER and other subsections sections were Quim, and some on council. Its clear that removing them never made things easier.

So I think my statement was valid no matter who is voted to council.

I am pretty sure I didn't call anyone any names?

Seems exactly an issue the council should discuss?

Makes sense to me to keep Mer discussions as a part of this site for the time being.

Frankly, I'm not sure what a different section would help at times.

Do a search on talk.maemo.org on Mer and you will see that Mer is actually pervasive in many of your conversations. Mer is about making a system that's by the community and for the community. And the fact that it is present in the minds of community members and people are discussing how a certain topic is relevant to the Mer project, is fantastic.

If you want to have a separate section, start asking to spin out topics that appear reasonable to discuss only in the context of the Mer project. Right now, most topics related to Mer are -also- related to Maemo.

And really - a Maemo-Mer-symbiosis is what we should strive towards. Being a community counterpart to Maemo system development. What matters to Maemo usually matters to Mer too. That council or others try to keep us from having a separate section is insane. They (former councils, Nokians, etc) did actually facilitate this project being created.

And I had the option to have Mer as a separate project or as a maemo.org project. So why maemo.org? Because this community has the best potential to become the most vibrant, active and developing community within mobile devices.

So, here's my suggestion for a first spin-off topic:

How would you like to see Mer be like, as a project and OS in 2012?

This doesn't parse well. I've not re-read this thread, but where is it the council saying "no, it's a bad idea"; rather than people who are active moderators/contributors saying "the current situation was ultimately decided by Stskeeps; let's revisit this wisely rather than blindly".

Personally, I don't care either way (and expect that we'll obviously have a Mer subsection at some point); but I object to the suggestions this is a conspiracy, and by emphasising that this is something the "NEW community council" should discuss it furthers the idea that this is something being blocked or handled by the current one.

I didn't say you did.

I would hope the council are dealing with more important issues than something which is ultimately a decision for the Mer project leaders and the tmo moderators based on community input. The council would be involved, but the council aren't that special - I would hope that the new council would continue to listen to the oldest and most experienced hands in the community.

Well, rereading your post clearly seems to me it looks like your insinuating I am a name calling foolish troll? Your words not mine.

Since these statements were right before a quote from me, its seems clear to me? You were calling names at the same time you insinuated that I was???

Really??

I have no conspiracy theory and, as a future Mer end-user and so far (due to lack of relevant skills) not as a useful Mer contributor, I'm fine with the main contributors deciding if they want to have a subsection or not.

However, I think I understand where the fear about NOT having a Mer subsection comes from. I don't have plans to buy the N900, so I'll be using my N800 for the foreseeable future.* What I, and I suspect others, fear, is that those of us who stick with our 770s, N800s, and N810s will find that what is relevant to us will be drowned in a sea of posts that are relevant only to Maemo 5 and the N900, and that won't relate to what are our concerns with the tablets we own. Neither the new OS nor the N900 have even be released, and nearly nobody has ever even touched one, and the forum is already dominated by them!

As I write this, I'm having a new thought. Maybe what the forum needs is one more layer of categorization, or a sort of super-tag system, which consists of only two categories: N900/Maemo 5 would be one; earlier devices, earlier OSes, and Mer would be the other. I'm not sure that would be workable; I'm offering the idea as something to be talked about and maybe altered and improved.

I don't want a totally separate forum for Mer/earlier OSes/earlier devices, because I think a unified community is great and there will continue to be overlap between the concerns, programs, etc. of the N900-adopters and the N900-non-adopters. But I don't want to come to the forum and find that I can't find my way through all the threads that aren't relevant to me to find the few that are. It would be helpful, for example, if when I came to the forum I could click on a button that would let me use the forum as I do now -- generally scrolling through all the New Posts -- and have the relevant-only-to-N900-and-Maemo-5 posts omitted.


*I'll be ready to upgrade when I can get a more powerful version of something more like the N8x0 series, as discussed ad nauseam elsewhere.