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| The Following User Says Thank You to lemmyslender For This Useful Post: | ||
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2009-11-09
, 18:27
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Posts: 3,096 |
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Joined on Jan 2006
@ Michigan, USA
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#22
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Originally Posted by lemmyslender
You can't call it a mobile computer, when it clearly provides the same thing to end users. (an internet tablet with a phone) I was initially excited when I saw all the hype about mobile computing. WOW did they finally figure out its a computer? Maybe finally we will get Nokia to provide real computer apps, like office suites and printing support and games.
What really concerned me with Ari's remarks are his definition of a computer:
"A computer of 2009 -- not 1999
When I talk about a computer, I talk about a computer people use today, especially young people. Think about the internet, messaging, sharing, openness, and think about browsers and players. Don't think about spreadsheets, word processors, file managers, or closed systems. That should put you in the right ballpark to start with."
To me computers are the things that deal with speadsheet, documents, file management, etc. Something that just does internet, messaging, media is more of a toy or a PDA, or smartphone, not a computer.
This is one of the major reasons I decided to buy an N900 after all. With Maemo 6 being for a capacitive screened device, I feel even more strongly that Nokia is moving away from a portable computer and towards a smartphone type device. After reading day after day about basing purchasing decisions on what's available, not what may be available, I decided to do just that.
I think the real danger here is that Maemo may end up being a mobile computer trapped in a smartphone body.
First is was "Its an internet tablet, not a computer". Now "its a computer, not an internet tablet". Yet what has changed? Was it the faster processor that made it a mobile computer? Was it the increased memory? Was it the smaller screen? Was it the phone being added?
It's always been a computer, but I see nothing changing from what existed before to what is available now to change it from an "internet tablet" to a "mobile computer"
Now its a computer, if you think about computers differently?
"Don't think about spreadsheets, word processors, file managers, or closed systems. "
If you think about people without jobs using the internet, its a computer???
It's always been a computer
__________________
To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
Last edited by penguinbait; 2009-11-09 at 18:31.
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2009-11-09
, 18:28
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Moderator |
Posts: 7,109 |
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Joined on Oct 2007
@ Vancouver, BC, Canada
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#23
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Originally Posted by lemmyslender
Yes, that part of Ari's post made me feel like Qole Quixote, a poor old deluded codger chasing an outdated dream while the rest of the world moves on...
What really concerned me with Ari's remarks are his definition of a computer
...
To me computers are the things that deal with speadsheet, documents, file management, etc. Something that just does internet, messaging, media is more of a toy or a PDA, or smartphone, not a computer.
Sure, I like all the connectedness stuff, too, but my "real computer" on my desktop does that kind of stuff in the background while also running the productivity apps. Instant Messaging, social networking and VoIP are all nice, and everything, but they don't define "real computer" to me...
Originally Posted by RevdKathy
I'm sorry that you've had that experience.
As the sort of woman men have affairs with but never marry...
Not all men are afraid to commit to "dangerous" women. Keep looking!
__________________
qole.org --- twitter --- Easy Debian wiki page
Please don't send me a private message, post to the appropriate thread.
Thank you all for your donations!
qole.org --- twitter --- Easy Debian wiki page
Please don't send me a private message, post to the appropriate thread.
Thank you all for your donations!
Last edited by qole; 2009-11-09 at 18:33.
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2009-11-09
, 18:56
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Posts: 155 |
Thanked: 118 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
@ Ontario, Canada
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#24
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Tilting at windmills:
I'd like to think the N900 a 'real' computer because it can do the productivity stuff. It's no different from the N810 in that respect, and I've managed to use that beastie exclusively while traveling for word processing, a bit of coding, pseudo-constant contact, presentations etc. for around 18 months now. My hope is the N900 does this at least as well if not better. So, it's that kind of computer (in potentia) for me. (and I haven't forgotten the Turing Machine either)
I was musing over the dangerous thing though - as a device that's capable of connectivity in more ways than the N810 but looks like a phone, is it dangerous to, for example, the airport security people who like to look for computers and will treat it as a phone? Stuff like that came to mind, for me anyway. In a world of citizen journalism, it would seem that there is a danger to authority in such capable devices, N900 among them.
Or, perhaps it's dangerous because the constant connectivity/contact is so addictive? Which is why I'd be happy to turn off connectivity apps from time to time (maybe a control panel to do this for 30 minutes out of every 60, for example, might help me get 'work' done).
@YoDude - my own motorcycle history has in it a YZF1000, which was awesome and far too powerful for my own good. While I'm relatively capable, the capability of the motorcycle was beyond the vast majority of my skills, or those of my peers. Coupled with the lack of appreciation for bikes from the general cage-driving public, it made for an exciting ride every time. And every time I got off it was a sigh of exhilerated relief... I wonder, in the wrong hands, is the N900 dangerous in a similar way - capable of much more than the general public are aware and tempting us to push to the limit our responses to it (I can think of ways). Might not kill us, but could cause trouble...
meh. Perhaps it's all codswallop and marketeering from Ari...
Steve the luddite...
I'd like to think the N900 a 'real' computer because it can do the productivity stuff. It's no different from the N810 in that respect, and I've managed to use that beastie exclusively while traveling for word processing, a bit of coding, pseudo-constant contact, presentations etc. for around 18 months now. My hope is the N900 does this at least as well if not better. So, it's that kind of computer (in potentia) for me. (and I haven't forgotten the Turing Machine either)
I was musing over the dangerous thing though - as a device that's capable of connectivity in more ways than the N810 but looks like a phone, is it dangerous to, for example, the airport security people who like to look for computers and will treat it as a phone? Stuff like that came to mind, for me anyway. In a world of citizen journalism, it would seem that there is a danger to authority in such capable devices, N900 among them.
Or, perhaps it's dangerous because the constant connectivity/contact is so addictive? Which is why I'd be happy to turn off connectivity apps from time to time (maybe a control panel to do this for 30 minutes out of every 60, for example, might help me get 'work' done).
@YoDude - my own motorcycle history has in it a YZF1000, which was awesome and far too powerful for my own good. While I'm relatively capable, the capability of the motorcycle was beyond the vast majority of my skills, or those of my peers. Coupled with the lack of appreciation for bikes from the general cage-driving public, it made for an exciting ride every time. And every time I got off it was a sigh of exhilerated relief... I wonder, in the wrong hands, is the N900 dangerous in a similar way - capable of much more than the general public are aware and tempting us to push to the limit our responses to it (I can think of ways). Might not kill us, but could cause trouble...
meh. Perhaps it's all codswallop and marketeering from Ari...
Steve the luddite...
__________________
broken pencil
broken pencil
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2009-11-09
, 21:36
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Posts: 607 |
Thanked: 450 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Washington, DC
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#25
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The problem is, the N900 is as much a computer as ANY device running an OS on an ARM CPU. Think about the set of devices that encompasses. The N900 distinguishes itself from them for better or worse by its OS (generally better except for available apps), its CPU speed (dropping in the polls as faster chips hit the market), and its RAM (still #1, I think).
But, I would argue, it is not an UMPC - an Ultra Mobile Personal Computer - competitor. Right now, I would describe the dividing line between a real, general purpose computer and a really smart smartphone in terms of a task: create a presentation in OpenOffice and show it to a meeting in at least 800x600 resolution on a projector using only the device, a cable, and a standard projector.
The combination of power (to run OpenOffice for content creation productively, not as an experiment), screen real estate and pointer resolution (to deal with manipulating graphics), and external display support (to run a projector or external monitor) is what makes the N900 less than a real computer in your pocket. A year from now, all bets are off thanks to Moore.
But, I would argue, it is not an UMPC - an Ultra Mobile Personal Computer - competitor. Right now, I would describe the dividing line between a real, general purpose computer and a really smart smartphone in terms of a task: create a presentation in OpenOffice and show it to a meeting in at least 800x600 resolution on a projector using only the device, a cable, and a standard projector.
The combination of power (to run OpenOffice for content creation productively, not as an experiment), screen real estate and pointer resolution (to deal with manipulating graphics), and external display support (to run a projector or external monitor) is what makes the N900 less than a real computer in your pocket. A year from now, all bets are off thanks to Moore.
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2009-11-10
, 00:10
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Posts: 2,869 |
Thanked: 1,784 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Po' Bo'. PA
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#26
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Originally Posted by smarsh
You're pro'ly right on both those accounts. It's the "capable of much more than the general public are aware" that concerns me some...... I wonder, in the wrong hands, is the N900 dangerous in a similar way - capable of much more than the general public are aware and tempting us to push to the limit our responses to it (I can think of ways). Might not kill us, but could cause trouble...
meh. Perhaps it's all codswallop and marketeering from Ari...
Today I was behind a driver who was swaying back and forth in the lane and driving slowly. I didn't pass him because I didn't know which way he was going to swerve next. He tied up a line of traffic that stretched behind us for quite awhile. When he did move right to take on on-ramp to a hi-way I got by him. As I passed I noticed he had a cell phone in his hands. His hands were on the wheel but the cell phone display is what had his attention, not the dang road.
I'm afraid that the capabilities of future phones will provide even more ways to distract people who should really be paying attention to something else.
And BTW, some of the most "dangerous" woman that I have known didn't want to be tied down by someone "committed" to them. Some actively sought relationships with married men because of that.
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2009-11-10
, 02:37
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Moderator |
Posts: 7,109 |
Thanked: 8,820 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Vancouver, BC, Canada
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#27
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My biggest fear is the danger from a niche OS like Maemo going mainstream. It didn't really matter before that many of the built-in apps stored your password in plain text in the system registry, because Maemo devices weren't targets for malicious types. But when Maemo devices start showing up all over, I hope the 'dangerous' part won't be the danger of losing all your account info to crackers.
And I wonder now, if a woman identifies herself as someone men prefer to have affairs with rather than someone who prefers married men, is she really that dangerous after all?
For operating systems and women, I think I prefer the appearance of danger over actual danger any day.
My OS can wear a leather jacket with the anarchy symbol on it and have piercings all over, just don't let me be a victim of identity theft...
And I wonder now, if a woman identifies herself as someone men prefer to have affairs with rather than someone who prefers married men, is she really that dangerous after all?
For operating systems and women, I think I prefer the appearance of danger over actual danger any day.
My OS can wear a leather jacket with the anarchy symbol on it and have piercings all over, just don't let me be a victim of identity theft...
__________________
qole.org --- twitter --- Easy Debian wiki page
Please don't send me a private message, post to the appropriate thread.
Thank you all for your donations!
qole.org --- twitter --- Easy Debian wiki page
Please don't send me a private message, post to the appropriate thread.
Thank you all for your donations!
| The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to qole For This Useful Post: | ||
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2009-11-10
, 02:52
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Posts: 4,556 |
Thanked: 1,624 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
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#28
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Same practices as running any operating system, only install applications from people or areas you trust, do the occasionally sweep. And if you notice any suspicious stuff, change all your passwords on a secure computer.
__________________
Originally Posted by ysss
They're maemo and MeeGo...
"Meamo!" sounds like what Zorro would say to catherine zeta jones... after she slaps him for looking at her dirtily...
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2009-11-10
, 03:06
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Posts: 733 |
Thanked: 991 times |
Joined on Dec 2008
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#29
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Originally Posted by qole
Yes, that part of Ari's post made me feel like Qole Quixote, a poor old deluded codger chasing an outdated dream while the rest of the world moves on...
Sure, I like all the connectedness stuff, too, but my "real computer" on my desktop does that kind of stuff in the background while also running the productivity apps. Instant Messaging, social networking and VoIP are all nice, and everything, but they don't define "real computer" to me...
To dream the impossible dream
To code the uncodeable app
To load the unloadable virtual partition
To run where the brave dare not go
To right the unrightable wrong
To love pure and chaste from afar
To try when your arms are too weary
To reach the unreachable star!
Qole, let me just say THANK YOU for all the hard work you have put in Easy Debian. It has saved my hide a couple of times when my PC died on me. At times I wish I could code to give you a hand, but I don't, so the most I can do is cheer your hard work.
I was also appalled by the the definition Ari gives of a computer. I don't know about you guys, but for me, a computer is a tool of my trade, is something I earn my living with, and for that, productivity tools will always, always trump everything else.
For me, a computer is defined by its versatility. So it's sad when I see devices coming to the market which try to box you in experiences you may not want. I couldn't care less about social networking (privacy), I do have a Facebook page, but only to check my friends from to time and to upload a picture or two. I do use VoIP and IM, but I wouldn't put those capabilities above the need to be productive on the go... because at the end, being productive is why I earn a paycheck (and without my paycheck I wouldn't be able to buy mobile devices...). So having a device for fun and for work is a balance that should be strived for, and having a true multi-purpose computer is the key for that.
Thinking about "the internet, messaging, sharing, openness, and think about browsers and players", is all good when you want to try to cash on the "hip" dollar, Apple style. But remember that hip dollar is inconstant and will chase the next big thing.
I am biased enough to think that the "boring" people that think about " spreadsheets, word processors, file managers" will be more faithful to the system in the long run (and I don't get what spreadsheets, word processors, etc, has to do with closed systems).
So yeah Nokia, go ahead and implement all the "fun" stuff in devices, all you want. But don't leave productivity on the side. There is a reason why the E-Series are such a big success.
__________________
Hola! Soy un Guía de Maemo!.
Vínculos interesantes si nos visitas por primera vez (en inglés): New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Si te puedo ayudar con cualquier otra cosa, sólo dilo!
Hola! Soy un Guía de Maemo!.
Vínculos interesantes si nos visitas por primera vez (en inglés): New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Si te puedo ayudar con cualquier otra cosa, sólo dilo!
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2009-11-10
, 03:08
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Posts: 3,096 |
Thanked: 1,525 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ Michigan, USA
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#30
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Originally Posted by qole
shhhhhhhhh
My biggest fear is the danger from a niche OS like Maemo going mainstream. It didn't really matter before that many of the built-in apps stored your password in plain text in the system registry, because Maemo devices weren't targets for malicious types. But when Maemo devices start showing up all over, I hope the 'dangerous' part won't be the danger of losing all your account info to crackers.
__________________
To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
But to go with the car analogy, to me it seems more like taking a V8 and putting it in a Ford Escort. It certainly changes how we look at car and driving. You can do some things well (go fast straight), but others not so well (cornering at speed). Put that same motor in a larger better designed (for the motor) car, you can go fast, corner, etc.
That's the danger I see, taking Maemo: taking that big strong engine that is Maemo, and putting it in ever smaller less appropriate shells (smaller screen, capacitive, less hardware buttons). Making it ever better a small subset of tasks, and ever less effective at a larger variety of tasks.
*Consumer*, not a developer! I apologize for any inconvenience.
My script to backup /home and /opt
Samsung Galaxy S Vibrant, Huawei S7, N900(retired), N800(retired)