Active Topics
-
Maemo repository (9)
to Community by nokiafemboy - 51 mins ago -
Error after installing Leste on sdcard (18)
to Maemo 7 / Leste by Maemish - 16 hrs, 16 mins ago -
Maemo 20th Anniversary (4)
to Brainstorm by teroyk - 2 days, 11 hrs ago -
Nokia Booklet 3G (RX-75) Drivers (64)
to Alternatives by teroyk - 2 days, 11 hrs ago -
Porting apps to Leste (46)
to Maemo 7 / Leste by teroyk - 4 days, 15 hrs ago - more...
|
2009-11-21
, 15:57
|
|
Posts: 189 |
Thanked: 121 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
|
#22
|
Originally Posted by 406NotAcceptable
The problem is of course that Android doesn't run "Java", it runs a bytecode interpreter. Java's speed advantage comes from JIT compilation and its ability to perform runtime optimisations not possible at compile time.
The G1 managed to emulate the three consoles above rather well.
Java is particularly suited for long-running applications which is why it's big on the serverside. In the mobile area it's somewhat at a disadvantage relative to native applications but on the other hand you can very easily port applications from one handset to another.
 |
|
2009-11-21
, 16:15
|
|
Posts: 2,355 |
Thanked: 5,249 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Barcelona
|
#23
|
Originally Posted by Rushmore
Sorry, but I have to doubt this.
As far as Mario Kart for SNES and GBA, the G1 clocked at 528mhz plays them both at about 40fps with sound. More than adequate for playability. Droid plays them close to 60fps, but the freaking keyboard drives me insane.
SNESoid is yet another DrPocketSNES close (and an illegal one, btw, since the license clearly forbids commercial use -- basically "sue on sight"). DrNokSnes is such another clone too, so I wouldn't expect any _important_ speed difference between both.
And behold! That's the case with nearly every Youtube video about the G1 I've seen (unfortunately I'm yet to find one myself). In a 5-months old Mario Kart video that seems to be done on a G1 without frameskipping nor overcloking my N810 is even faster (of course without frameskipping nor overclocking either).
My wild guess is that since SNESoid doesn't have a proper FPS counter you're guessing the framerate. In which case, please compare to a real console or your favourite desktop emulator.
|
|
2009-11-21
, 16:20
|
|
Posts: 1,418 |
Thanked: 1,541 times |
Joined on Feb 2008
|
#24
|
Originally Posted by sharper
So, you really think that a bytecode interpreter is not Java?
The problem is of course that Android doesn't run "Java", it runs a bytecode interpreter. Java's speed advantage comes from JIT compilation and its ability to perform runtime optimisations not possible at compile time.
 |
|
2009-11-21
, 16:21
|
|
Posts: 1,107 |
Thanked: 720 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
@ Germany
|
#25
|
If those emulators are running at claimed speeds in a VM, then they have received a *lot* of attention and work from skilled coders. Also don't trust the fps numbers. Are they internally calculated or *actually* *displayed*?
For a lot of games, 20 fps is perfectly playable, but for some games, and some people it is not. And it can not be called *fast*.
25/30 fps is a disaster for many games because they blink sprites alternte frames. So you need to fairly well above or below that number to get reasonable interleaved blinking.
But at this point, TODAY, N900 emulator and game porters are looking at Maemo5 wasting 25-50% cpu if they naively blit their window to screen in SDL and push sound to pulse audio.
Just wanted to point that out.
[Edit] Not to be hurtful in any way, but to help start corrective action now, when we need to encourage development, and not discourage developers.
Last edited by ArnimS; 2009-11-21 at 16:28. Reason: addendum
For a lot of games, 20 fps is perfectly playable, but for some games, and some people it is not. And it can not be called *fast*.
25/30 fps is a disaster for many games because they blink sprites alternte frames. So you need to fairly well above or below that number to get reasonable interleaved blinking.
But at this point, TODAY, N900 emulator and game porters are looking at Maemo5 wasting 25-50% cpu if they naively blit their window to screen in SDL and push sound to pulse audio.
Just wanted to point that out.
[Edit] Not to be hurtful in any way, but to help start corrective action now, when we need to encourage development, and not discourage developers.
Last edited by ArnimS; 2009-11-21 at 16:28. Reason: addendum
|
|
2009-11-21
, 17:01
|
|
Posts: 1,418 |
Thanked: 1,541 times |
Joined on Feb 2008
|
#26
|
Originally Posted by ArnimS
Not gonna happen. Not with the Linux, X11, compositing window manager, Gtk+, etc. between you and the hardware. Having said that, go to full screen, open /dev/fb0, and you are as close to the hardware as you can possibly get. Ok, N900 hardware won't scale for you that easily (N8x0 did though). But scaling with the CPU is not that bad either, as long as you implement it for a specific ratio.
You know perfectly well that for years I have been requesting from nokia tablets basic video output at a 1989 level of computer performance.
To call the N900 *fast* for emulators at this point when you know we have nasty bottlenecks in both video and audio is misleading.
Please dont buy an android-only device. It is like buying diapers for yourself and wearing them in public while bragging that you can no longer soil the furniture..
|
|
2009-11-21
, 17:06
|
|
Posts: 1,255 |
Thanked: 393 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ US
|
#27
|
Originally Posted by javispedro
I compared to ZSNES (PC) and my Dingoo game system, which both have a frame counters and plays Mario Kart full speed with sound. I see no difference between.
Sorry, but I have to doubt this.
SNESoid is yet another DrPocketSNES close (and an illegal one, btw, since the license clearly forbids commercial use -- basically "sue on sight"). DrNokSnes is such another clone too, so I wouldn't expect any _important_ speed difference between both.
And behold! That's the case with nearly every Youtube video about the G1 I've seen (unfortunately I'm yet to find one myself). In a 5-months old Mario Kart video that seems to be done on a G1 without frameskipping nor overcloking my N810 is even faster (of course without frameskipping nor overclocking either).
My wild guess is that since SNESoid doesn't have a proper FPS counter you're guessing the framerate. In which case, please compare to a real console or your favourite desktop emulator.
update: I also tried on by GBA with the actual cart (I have over one hundred of them things).
I am a gaming nut- if it is not playing smooth with sound, I will tell you. Need to test Duke Nukem' on the GBA emulator- That game is a legend for bringing emulators to their knees.
Droid plays Mario Kart at full speed with sound- with zero frame skip setting. Please check with other people that have a Droid (for now) and have Mario Kart on it.
Snesoid even plays it rotating to portrait- full speed with sound. I am a picky SOB when it comes to games. Droid rocks, so N900 should be better than this. Unless the dev for the "Oid" emulators is a coding genius and this is why it is better than the others.
Though the dev is good, I say Bratag is right and the 3430 is just a good beast for small devices.
BTW- I Never said Droid has better emus than N900- no way of knowing. I do know that Droid plays them very well, but I have a PSP, DS and Dingoo loaded with roms. I want the N900 for media, web, all of the space for media and a different OS than Android.
Last edited by Rushmore; 2009-11-21 at 17:14.
|
|
2009-11-21
, 17:09
|
|
Posts: 1,418 |
Thanked: 1,541 times |
Joined on Feb 2008
|
#28
|
Originally Posted by ArnimS
They are all done in native code. Come on, don't be naive, what VM?
If those emulators are running at claimed speeds in a VM, then they have received a *lot* of attention and work from skilled coders.
For a lot of games, 20 fps is perfectly playable, but for some games, and some people it is not. And it can not be called *fast*.
25/30 fps is a disaster for many games because they blink sprites alternte frames. So you need to fairly well above or below that number to get reasonable interleaved blinking.
But at this point, TODAY, N900 emulator and game porters are looking at Maemo5 wasting 25-50% cpu if they naively blit their window to screen in SDL and push sound to pulse audio.
Not to be hurtful in any way, but to help start corrective action now, when we need to encourage development, and not discourage developers.
|
|
2009-11-21
, 17:12
|
|
Posts: 2,355 |
Thanked: 5,249 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Barcelona
|
#29
|
Originally Posted by Rushmore
Dingoo A320? WHAT? It's slower than Wiz! And I tried this one!
Dingoo
|
|
2009-11-21
, 17:24
|
|
Posts: 1,255 |
Thanked: 393 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ US
|
#30
|
Originally Posted by javispedro
Do you try the one with Linux or the stock app? Linux version plays great.
Dingoo A320? WHAT? It's slower than Wiz! And I tried this one!
Dingoo SNES version
Dingoo stock app = Not playable (background missing)
Linux version = Plays as good as the ZNES version (to me)
Dingoo GBA version
Stock version plays as smooth as my GBA cart.
This game and Crash Bandicoot Racing for PS1 are my fave arcade-type racing games.
Computer and Console Emulators for Maemo, Symbian, and more.
Pack Rat: The Maemo Package Aggregator.