I spend much of my freetime to develop software diretcly targeting the maemo platform. I do not have much of this freetime, so it is essential for me to concentrate. For the communication to the community (and this included the community mailing list but is not restricted especially to this list), which includes:

• helping people
• participating in talks about my software
• getting to know what is really happening

It is essential for me to get information in the fastest way possible, not loosing development time. I also need a way to to clever batch mode communication, because I'm often away over the weekend, I'm in holidays or I'm simply to tired for a few days to check.

Talk simply fails for me doing this. It fails in tracking, it fails in batch working and other smaller ways (one of it beeing that I simply do not like forums I admit).

I simply do not have the time to regulary take a look at TMO. If you close this mailing lists (or all?) I will not move to TMO.

Closing down the community mailing list (and not forcing community related talks also into the list), I will loose another link to the rest of the community, further isolating me and people that act and think similar. I personally think of myself as beeing valuable to the comminity. I also think such people like me (prefering mailing lists) are valuable and while they are possibly now a (silent?) minority (proof?) they still exist, are important and can give valuable input.

I also understand that other people have other habbits, different timeslots or working behaviours and TMO ismore valuable for them. So I would not suggest to close down TMO :-)

This problem can IMHO only be solved technically, a technical solution was often requested and obviously never realized. I also see fragmentation of the community as a growing problem that will hurt and this suggested step is sadly in no way the solution to solve this. In opposite.

Please solve the problem and do not make the problem disappear by just making people disappear that could hint to the problem, even if that is easier than solving the real problem.

And it is funny that the request to close down the mailing list was first send to the forum. This sounds like not asking people which would be hit most by the decision :-/

The number of mailing lists is not a technical problem and there is also no technical reason to shutdown a low traffic mailing list.

Which bit? A subset of the stuff discussed here is currently important enough to discuss on maemo-community. How would you categorise the distinction between:

• stuff which is currently mainly discussed on -community with pointers to tmo,
• stuff that which is the other way around
• stuff that is only discussed on tmo
• stuff that is only discussed on -community.

My impression is that the "big" stuff (where to hold the summit, council elections, karma, QA process) are primarily discussed on -community. Things which are less cross-cutting (user meetups, testing pushes) are discussed/promoted here.

-community is the evolution of the migard2maemo list. It is currently intended that this is where the work around maemo.org is discussed. Since most of the work on the infrastructure of maemo.org is paid for; that is what I meant.

Canned responses apply:

• There's more noise on tmo; even in the Community sub-forum. Reggie's new "subscribed sub-forum" feature is a godsend to those of us who use the fora, but it's still a pull mechanism.
• Email is push.
• It's easier to work with mailing lists offline. Some of us travel a lot.
• It's easier to filter out threads which aren't of interest to you.
• It's easier to repackage a mailing list into other systems (such as gmane et al) than it is a forum.
• Threading is better on a mailing list.
• The SNR is higher. I don't know why; I'm not suggesting that the people on a mailing list are better; it just is. In our circumstance. That's not to say that there aren't excellent posts and posters here either.

Why not the other way around? Why not post a link to tmo everytime there's a new -community thread?

I really don't get this debate, and the related animosity. This very issue has been solved ages ago (end of the last century/millenium...) on good old Usenet, with automated, two-way gateways between newsgroups and mailing lists.

This way everyone uses their preferred media and tool, but there is still only one debate in one place with the entire community.

Has this not been discussed here before ? Is it impossible to with forums in 2010 what was common thirty years ago ?...

This was where I was confused. I knew there was gateways to and from mailing lists.. I have participated in several securityfocus and other mailing lists that show up on websites and other places all over.

I don't see this argument getting anywhere.. because both mailing lists and forums have a very dedicated user base that will refuse to abandon their tool. Reason and/or logic play no part: They are simply dedicated to their way of doing it (this goes to both sides).

A gateway to/from this forum to the mailing-list is really the best option... I believe.

Yes, I have started doing that, and I will continue, whatever the outcome of this discussion is.

And I already can tell you the outcome of this discussion: nothing will change. That's OK, we're just chatting at the pub over a pint here.

Thats what I just said in my 1st post... merge them, even make TMO-community moderated. So you have both sides (mail vs forum) working together. With a good SNR.

Thank you for wasting my time and giving proof to impressions that there is more traffic at TMO but not necessarily more important ones in sum :-/

I want change, I want a two way gateway. Please do initiate change!

Some people will refuse to use one or the other tool, and I don't want to lose the input of those folks just to centralize.

A certain spiteful part of me would note what an uproar posting community discussions that could affect Talk to -community caused in the past. . . .

I am completely for moving all discussion from the Community-Mailing list to TMO.

I would be equally happy if the email integration could be done for the community mailing list. Any user should be easily able to post to the community discussion group.

http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=43


If not, it should be moved into the forums. The problem is people on the mailing list come to a conclusion about something and then the people at TMO discuss it and have all kinds of different ideas.

We need to be on the SAME page from the start.

I have been a long time supporter of this idea.

"Come to the dark side, Luke".

Sorry, people stating that they will not use TMO for various reason and then suggesting a complete move to TMO has no convincing logic for me. You see I have a problem with:

There are people discussing in two rooms. This is a problem. We shut down one room. All people in this room go home and never come back (OK, perhaps only 2/3). Afterwards there is only one room. Now all people are discussing together in one room. I'm happy.

Havn't you missed something (somebody?)?