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2010-01-22
, 18:49
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Posts: 2,173 |
Thanked: 2,678 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Cornwall, UK
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#22
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Originally Posted by Den in USA
There was one. Though it didn't get a great deal of noise. Perhaps most of us prefer not to tell the world whether/how much we donate.
What is interesting to note is that not too long ago we posted our concerns about what we thought at the time was a little boy trapped in a gas filled balloon, yet this week I did not see any posts about the Haitian earthquake.
To be honest, I don't see the n900 noise, or even the 'help naow' posts being a huge problem. They're mostly contained to one or two fora (or sent there by long suffering mods) and people continue to patiently offer help regardless of how grammatically challenged the request.
What concerns me is seeing people apparently living on their nerves and biting back at people. And it's actually not the n900bs that are doing it. This very thread is an example of two long standing posters starting to get tetchy with each other. And I should certainly never have joined a mailing list - people there are consistently short with each other.
I'm not suggesting the comunity should be all group hugs and singing Kumbaya (though I'm never averse to a hug of any sort) but we really do seem to have missed our cheerful pills this last couple of weeks.
__________________
Hi! I'm Kathy and I'm a Maemo Greeter! Welcome.
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Hi! I'm Kathy and I'm a Maemo Greeter! Welcome.
Useful links for newcomers: New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Did you know Meego.com has forums too?
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2010-01-22
, 18:49
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Posts: 3,428 |
Thanked: 2,856 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#23
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Originally Posted by NvyUs
The problem, as I see it, is that t.m.o "back in the day" really used to get some insane stuff done.
i read you points and solution is not hoping people go away and join howard forums to get help.
the community needs new members of all kinds and without the recent influx on talk.maemo.org then the whole of maemo.org would not be getting the increased funding and support for all the different sections.
In the short term it may get boring reading same complaints and help me naow posts but the long term benefits I'm sure will make it all worth it
With the advent of Easy debian, and then Deblet, and I myself doing "keblet" by porting over KDE3 and 4, getting sound to work in alternate operating systems.. etc.
And then came Mer. After this point.. productivity by and large started decreasing. We do have some threads around about booting alternate OS's with the N900.. fanoush is still at it I see as is STSkeeps... but overall in the forums I see much less of this.
Now you look around T.m.o, and you can basically see a blanket like 6-8 people that are helping in nearly every thread.... and that's it.
There is significantly less collaboration of the more knowledgeable people around here than there used to be. A lot of the innovations that the N810 and prior had were done with the help of a great many people that are either nearly non-existent now, or a much less active.
The reason is because there is simply too much "crap" to wade through these days, quite honestly. Keep in mind, I don't have a problem with helping people. I never have. But I take serious issues with helping people that seem to show that they have no desire at all to help themselves.. that they somehow feel it's my, nokia, texrats or whoever else's responsibility to fix their device. This kind of mentality has significantly grown here.. and it causes that "different" taste that Texrat is talking about.
There is no avoiding it.. now that we have a phone we are *going* to get these kinds of posts. However, Texrat is saying he thinks we should have somewhere to kind of direct these people to (however politely) that they can go and diddle daddle with other users that don't mind helping with that. (I may also be misreading some of Texrat's points as well, though.)
Unfortunately.. even if we did resurrect something like Tablet Scene.. I just don't see T.M.O. ever getting back to the way it was in the "good old days", so to speak.
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2010-01-22
, 18:50
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#24
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Originally Posted by NvyUs
You're still not getting what I'm saying, but I won't belabor it further.
in a community you have no say who moves next door or over the road you just learn to live with them and get along.
you can't manufacture your idea's of who belongs here and who does not its just plain protectionism and elitism .
even if it was split in to two community forums everyone would still come here as its where the people with knowledge are so that solution is unworkable.
Suffice to say I disagree with your conclusions, you seem to not get that I'm simply musing and expressing personal preference, and leave it at that.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2010-01-22
, 18:51
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Posts: 3,428 |
Thanked: 2,856 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#25
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Originally Posted by NvyUs
The problem is they aren't moving in... they are renting space for a day to get what they want and then leaving within an hour. Then come back if something else is broke..
in a community you have no say who moves next door or over the road you just learn to live with them and get along.
you can't manufacture your idea's of who belongs here and who does not its just plain protectionism and elitism .
even if it was split in to two community forums everyone would still come here as its where the people with knowledge are so that solution is unworkable.
Take and Give is the way it should be...
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2010-01-22
, 18:53
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Posts: 2,173 |
Thanked: 2,678 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Cornwall, UK
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#26
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
All good points - which may account for why what I'm seein is people generally being short with each other.
The problem, as I see it, is that t.m.o "back in the day" really used to get some insane stuff done.
With the advent of Easy debian, and then Deblet, and I myself doing "keblet" by porting over KDE3 and 4, getting sound to work in alternate operating systems.. etc.
And then came Mer. After this point.. productivity by and large started decreasing. We do have some threads around about booting alternate OS's with the N900.. fanoush is still at it I see as is STSkeeps... but overall in the forums I see much less of this.
Now you look around T.m.o, and you can basically see a blanket like 6-8 people that are helping in nearly every thread.... and that's it.
There is significantly less collaboration of the more knowledgeable people around here than there used to be. A lot of the innovations that the N810 and prior had were done with the help of a great many people that are either nearly non-existent now, or a much less active.
The reason is because there is simply too much "crap" to wade through these days, quite honestly. Keep in mind, I don't have a problem with helping people. I never have. But I take serious issues with helping people that seem to show that they have no desire at all to help themselves.. that they somehow feel it's my, nokia, texrats or whoever else's responsibility to fix their device. This kind of mentality has significantly grown here.. and it causes that "different" taste that Texrat is talking about.
There is no avoiding it.. now that we have a phone we are *going* to get these kinds of posts. However, Texrat is saying he thinks we should have somewhere to kind of direct these people to (however politely) that they can go and diddle daddle with other users that don't mind helping with that. (I may also be misreading some of Texrat's points as well, though.)
Unfortunately.. even if we did resurrect something like Tablet Scene.. I just don't see T.M.O. ever getting back to the way it was in the "good old days", so to speak.
The question is whether we can do anything about it, and if so what. There's not a lot of point in refering people to nokia support forums, since I gather they are not nearly as good at providing support as this place.
What would you suggest?
__________________
Hi! I'm Kathy and I'm a Maemo Greeter! Welcome.
Useful links for newcomers: New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Did you know Meego.com has forums too?
Hi! I'm Kathy and I'm a Maemo Greeter! Welcome.
Useful links for newcomers: New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Did you know Meego.com has forums too?
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2010-01-22
, 18:57
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#27
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Comparing a forum to a live neighborhood is flawed anyway. There are gated communities and other elements in real life that serve to create homogenous communities. In addition, gated communities on the internet can easily narrow membership to a select constituency.
But I was mostly musing out loud, not even remotely trying to dictate any sort of communal cleaving... and like I said I expected the "hate mail"-- especially when people choose to read superficially instead of considering content and context.
Regardless, there will come a time when this really is 2 or 3 or so distinct communities under a single umbrella. It happens. I think we should be proactive and discuss the subject, which I had thought was on topic.
But I was mostly musing out loud, not even remotely trying to dictate any sort of communal cleaving... and like I said I expected the "hate mail"-- especially when people choose to read superficially instead of considering content and context.
Regardless, there will come a time when this really is 2 or 3 or so distinct communities under a single umbrella. It happens. I think we should be proactive and discuss the subject, which I had thought was on topic.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2010-01-22
, 19:00
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Posts: 1,885 |
Thanked: 2,008 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ OVI MAPS
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#28
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i think its all down to the structure of the forums they are a bit messy.
if some one needs help there is like four different forums it can be posted to in theory, which means a lot of the time it does by four different people.
like we see same complaints posted in maemo 5, n900, general.
there forums need a new structure we all agreed on that in another thread when/if that happens there really needs to be a Help forum with read only sticky and place to post for solving problems people have
if some one needs help there is like four different forums it can be posted to in theory, which means a lot of the time it does by four different people.
like we see same complaints posted in maemo 5, n900, general.
there forums need a new structure we all agreed on that in another thread when/if that happens there really needs to be a Help forum with read only sticky and place to post for solving problems people have
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2010-01-22
, 19:04
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Posts: 3,428 |
Thanked: 2,856 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#29
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Originally Posted by RevdKathy
Honestly I'm useless in this field. People don't come with an IP address so I'm pretty useless when dealing with them
The question is whether we can do anything about it, and if so what. There's not a lot of point in refering people to nokia support forums, since I gather they are not nearly as good at providing support as this place.
What would you suggest?
.I'm a geek... I'm a tech.. that's what I do. Making things user-friendly is not my specialty. I leave that to you
. However, I think you're right - we are one of (if not the) best support sites for the N770/800/810 and 900. Which just points to the fact we've sort of driven ourselves here.
I personally am not too sure there is a way out ... we would need more people that actually care to participate daily in here, not just when things are broken. The target audience has changed, and reading Texrat's community outreach program confirms it even further: Nokia isn't as much interested in us.. they are more interested in attracting the people that I talk about in my post. Because they are the majority.. they are where the money is.
We tend to make the device do what we want it to .... not really *needing* nokia .... and thus - we've become the unimportant group. With the N8x0/770 it was more specifically to a tinkering group.. and a tightnit tinkering group tends to be much more helpful - IMHO. But far less profitable in a business' eyes, I think.
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2010-01-22
, 19:04
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Posts: 1,885 |
Thanked: 2,008 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ OVI MAPS
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#30
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Originally Posted by Texrat
that's just the equivalent of a private forum same as mods and staff recently got here which i totally agree was needed all big sites have one.
Comparing a forum to a live neighborhood is flawed anyway. There are gated communities and other elements in real life that serve to create homogenous communities. In addition, gated communities on the internet can easily narrow membership to a select constituency..
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All times are GMT. The time now is 23:53.
you can't manufacture your idea's of who belongs here and who does not its just plain protectionism and elitism .
even if it was split in to two community forums everyone would still come here as its where the people with knowledge are so that solution is unworkable.