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myk is offline myk
2010-04-25 , 15:31
Posts: 293 | Thanked: 76 times | Joined on Jan 2008 @ Fremantle, W. Australia
#21
Originally Posted by amh View Post
Ovi Maps gives up trying to get a GPS fix after a few minutes and often fails without network positioning.
I noticed this too. I had some success with running a different map program (e.g. Mæmap) , wait until it gets a lock (might be 20 minutes!!), then start Nokia maps.

Or use a cheap external bluetooth GPS, which works so much better (away from the city).

Of course Ovi/Nokia maps on the n900 is such a piece of junk, why bother? I miss maemo mapper from the n8x0.
 

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abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2010-04-25 , 15:41
Banned | Posts: 3,412 | Thanked: 1,043 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#22
Originally Posted by myk View Post
I noticed this too. I had some success with running a different map program (e.g. Mæmap) , wait until it gets a lock (might be 20 minutes!!), then start Nokia maps.

Or use a cheap external bluetooth GPS, which works so much better (away from the city).

Of course Ovi/Nokia maps on the n900 is such a piece of junk, why bother? I miss maemo mapper from the n8x0.
The reason Ovi Maps dont work on the N900 is because the prgramme itself does not drive the gps device in the N900 the way it should as Ovi Maps was written for a broad spectrum of gps chips and as the app does not allow configuration to the N900 gps chip direct it will never work, the reason GPSjinnie works so well is because the writer obviously had the spec or enough info to write the app to drive the gps chip properly in the N900.
Your advice to get an external bluetooth gps is fair comment and probably the only way to get gps working on the N900 as long as it is configurable to the bluetooth gps device directly within its software from within the os of the N900.
 
myk is offline myk
2010-04-26 , 02:03
Posts: 293 | Thanked: 76 times | Joined on Jan 2008 @ Fremantle, W. Australia
#23
Originally Posted by abill_uk View Post
the prgramme itself does not drive the gps device in the N900
I think you will find that is no different for any other program. Even in a dedicated car GPS-navigator running WinCE, the program just sees the built-in GPS as a generic device on a serial port talking a standard protocol. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMEA_0183 .
The N900 has an API which allows many programs to share the GPS, be it internal or external bluetooth.

the reason GPSjinnie works so well is because the writer obviously had the spec or enough info to write the app to drive the gps chip properly in the N900.
I find that very hard to believe. Did you just make that up, or do you have some evidence to cite?

There are two problems as I understand it:
1) The N900's GPS can be very slow (30 mins or more even) to get a lock without a data connection. This will affect all mapping software in the N900.
2) The Nokia/Ovi maps program in the N900 gives up waiting after a short time, and stops using the GPS.

All it needs to be better than Ovi maps is not give up after a couple of minutes, and keep waiting.

Your advice to get an external bluetooth gps ... as long as it is configurable to the bluetooth gps device directly within its software from within the os of the N900.
Not sure I follow you. With an external GPS, you just wait for the external device to get a lock by itself. There is no fine control. The locating brains is all in the gps box.
 
kennibal is offline kennibal
2010-04-27 , 09:05
Posts: 60 | Thanked: 3 times | Joined on Apr 2010 @ Philippines
#24
I have tried this for the first time, and it worked.

I installed GPSJinni and Mapper.

My first trial is GPSJinni (Satellites), then after a few minutes, I started Mapper (GPS tab). It suddenly gets a GPS fix when I noticed GPSJinni's satellite bars turned GREEN which took 5-7mins.

I opened Ovi Maps, cancelled network connection prompts, then voila! I can see my location on the map with a RED dot.

*I just worry about Mapper as it sometimes crashes at random startup.
*I haven't tested yet if it was GPSJinni which really caused the GPS fix, or if it's Mapper.
 
arne.anka is offline arne.anka
2010-04-27 , 09:21
Posts: 198 | Thanked: 76 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#25
Originally Posted by vicegerent View Post
Like for example while I am connected to the internet, if I search places like Boots or Baskin Robins in Bangkok, then it will show me a list of these places that are most closest to my present location.

However, if I search without connecting to internet, the search results do not fetch any results. Same is the case after I have unchecked the Network Position.
search and routing are _not_ done on the n900, but at nokia's servers.
so, without an internet connection, all you get is a pretty map.
(edit: provided you downloadad them already!)

nokia's information about those shortcomings are sparse at best, but it has been discussed sometimes in the forum already.

and since the gps is slow (and by design made to work best with assisted gps via network -- "we never thougt anyone would use that device w/o internet flatrate"), you often may need inet for that too.
 
chrget is offline chrget
2010-04-27 , 11:47
Posts: 41 | Thanked: 33 times | Joined on Sep 2007
#26
Originally Posted by arne.anka View Post
[...] and since the gps is slow (and by design made to work best with assisted gps via network -- "we never thougt anyone would use that device w/o internet flatrate"), you often may need inet for that too.
Make that: GPS is slow. It is, by design, especially if used only occasionally. Modern-day GPS devices use all sorts of tricks to get around that, usually with quite good success.

I already laid out most of the basics in this post. Maybe mentioning it here will help dispel some of the myths being propagated with regard to GPS.

Regards,
Chris.
 
arne.anka is offline arne.anka
2010-04-27 , 12:02
Posts: 198 | Thanked: 76 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#27
Originally Posted by chrget View Post
Make that: GPS is slow. It is, by design, especially if used only occasionally.
may that as it be, i had no such bad experience of slowness with the openmoko freerunner -- and that completely w/o any assistance.
i got fixes in about 1 minute under clear sky in a field, where not even the location test app of the n900 will get a fix in several minutes, not to speak of that badly designed ovi maps.
check the lengthy bug report about ovi maps/gps in the bugtrracker and mark the ridiculous ideas the developers had of the prospective users (a rather common issue looking at a lot of nokia apps) ...

btw: as i understood the op, he was confused by nokia's non-existent information about ovi maps _only_ searching/routing when connected to the inet -- _not_ the slowness of the gps.
Last edited by arne.anka; 2010-04-27 at 12:04.
 
chrget is offline chrget
2010-04-27 , 16:39
Posts: 41 | Thanked: 33 times | Joined on Sep 2007
#28
Originally Posted by arne.anka View Post
i had no such bad experience of slowness with the openmoko freerunner -- and that completely w/o any assistance.
i got fixes in about 1 minute under clear sky in a field,
I'm not familiar with the Moko's implementation, be it hard or software. Possibly it was using something that most dedicated GPS hardware uses today: offline A-GPS. To this day I wonder why the N900 doesn't have this implemented. Probably something to do with the 'always on' mentality of the designers and developers.

Originally Posted by arne.anka View Post
where not even the location test app of the n900 will get a fix in several minutes,
Hmm. I simply cannot confirm such problems -- at least using GPSJinni, which just invokes the location API as well -- unless conditions are really bad, in which case it simply is not surprising. And you'd be surprised how often conditions are bad. And I am not talking weather (which, contrary to popular belief, doesn't have a huge impact on GPS) but satellite constellations and obstruction of reception due to buildings and terrain. Using something like Trimble's Planning Software may give you some idea.

(Incidentally, something like that piece of software would be very nice to have on the N900, come to think of it -- and it actually might provide the needed approximation data for an offline A-GPS. Of course I currently have _no_ idea if such data could even be fed to the GPS unit via location API or any other way short of hacking the cellmodem firmware. What a stroke of genius by the guy who decided to hook it up there instead of directly to the main processor's I/O. )

Originally Posted by arne.anka View Post
not to speak of that badly designed ovi maps.
check the lengthy bug report about ovi maps/gps in the bugtrracker and mark the ridiculous ideas the developers had of the prospective users (a rather common issue looking at a lot of nokia apps) ...
Oh, I'm not disputing that at all. An application using GPS that essentially folds after 30 seconds without a fix is ridiculous -- and that's putting it mildly. I would use stronger words, but that would go against my upbringing.

Originally Posted by arne.anka View Post
btw: as i understood the op, he was confused by nokia's non-existent information about ovi maps _only_ searching/routing when connected to the inet -- _not_ the slowness of the gps.
Acknowledged. But the thread had (once again, I might add, as this has happened in other threads before) drifted off into wild speculation about the N900's GPS in general, so I thought I might as well pick up on that. Mea culpa!

Regards,
Chris.
 
vicegerent is offline vicegerent
2010-06-13 , 06:33
Posts: 28 | Thanked: 7 times | Joined on Apr 2010
#29
Originally Posted by kennibal View Post
I have tried this for the first time, and it worked.

I installed GPSJinni and Mapper.

My first trial is GPSJinni (Satellites), then after a few minutes, I started Mapper (GPS tab). It suddenly gets a GPS fix when I noticed GPSJinni's satellite bars turned GREEN which took 5-7mins.

I opened Ovi Maps, cancelled network connection prompts, then voila! I can see my location on the map with a RED dot.

*I just worry about Mapper as it sometimes crashes at random startup.
*I haven't tested yet if it was GPSJinni which really caused the GPS fix, or if it's Mapper.
I am not sure about the facts regarding your post.

However, one thing I can say is that, without connecting to internet or downloading any extra applications (GPSJinni, Mapper etc), you can see your GPS location by clicking on the red dot on OVI maps.

However, you cannot search for other locations and you cannot find the route from point A to B unless you are connected to the internet.

And I have tried it even by downloading GPSJinni. It doesn't makes any difference. It still asks you to connect to internet if you want to search a location or find a route from point A to B on the map.
 
modular is offline modular
2010-06-21 , 11:47
Posts: 12 | Thanked: 1 time | Joined on Jun 2010
#30
So what is the official explanation on the n900 GPS inadequacy? Is it hardware or software? Shouldn't the GPS be able to get a good lock without networking? Even with networking, it seems much slower than other phones - or am I wrong?
 
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