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zarf is offline zarf
2010-05-16 , 07:35
Posts: 196 | Thanked: 47 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#21
If I gave you a car, but then said, oh yes, there's no petrol in it and I've had the tank removed, because I've heard many cars get broken by driving into things. Would you see this as a positive thing?
 

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zarf is offline zarf
2010-05-16 , 07:37
Posts: 196 | Thanked: 47 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#22
Most of the forum like being 'test pilots'
 
abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2010-05-16 , 07:40
Banned | Posts: 3,412 | Thanked: 1,043 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#23
Originally Posted by acvetkov View Post
The warning is not in RED I think this is what abill_uk wants...
It does not matter what color the warnings are written in it simply does not stop people from wrecking their devices simply because they dont take the warning serious enough.
Ok as a test for all you guys, go look at the actuall problems being reported on this forum because of the apps and and mods currently freely available on here and then you might just realise the actual amount of self induced problems occuring here.
 
Omkar is offline Omkar
2010-05-16 , 07:51
Posts: 79 | Thanked: 13 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#24
I suggest we have a code review by some experienced members before releasing the code to devel repo. reviewer can check if the app backs up all the os related files and while uninstalling restores them. A review could be easy as the code wud be open.

best thing wud be some1 create a short script which u pass on in args the file names of os files to be backed up and this script is called while uninstalling too.
I havent done any development on linux but my 2c based on the software development we follow at work.
 

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abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2010-05-16 , 07:54
Banned | Posts: 3,412 | Thanked: 1,043 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#25
Originally Posted by zarf View Post
Most of the forum like being 'test pilots'
Test pilots have the knowledge to know how to get themselves out of a sticky situation unlike the amount of "help me" we are getting simply because of the UNINSTALL procedure NOT being fully implemented on most given app's or mod's available for the N900.
 
geneven is offline geneven
2010-05-16 , 07:55
Posts: 5,795 | Thanked: 3,151 times | Joined on Feb 2007 @ Agoura Hills Calif
#26
Originally Posted by abill_uk View Post
After reading many of the problems with the N900 something is becoming very clear and that is the OS of the N900 is getting damaged enough to put it into a loop situation and re-booting problems are now becoming more and more of a ongoing situation with the N900.
One of the most important part of ANY application developed for the N900 or any OS should always have a COMPLETE uninstall option that is simply either not taken into consideration not working or not implemented within the app itself.
The countless reasons now for re-flashing are becoming more and more apparent and all down to bad programming that is either NOT checked out properly with enough field testing or checked for un-installation PRIOR to being released as a credible installable application on this forum.
If an application cannot be proved to be capable of un-installation COMPLETELY leaving the os EXACTLY as it was prior to installation then it is leading to a complete re-flash situation and should never be allowed as a credible application to start with.
These are my thoughts and i would love to read other people's thoughts regarding this.
I don't think that having to reflash is a fate worse than death. I don't think that hysterically exaggerating the dangers of applications that you haven't even named is particularly helpful. And we already have been warned into the ground that extras-devel programs might not be entirely safe.

I think that's enough warnings. I think that the real problem with reflashing is that it became harder with the N900 than it was with the N810 or the N800, which is dumb. It should have been made easier.
 

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Peet is offline Peet
2010-05-16 , 08:02
Posts: 302 | Thanked: 254 times | Joined on Oct 2007
#27
Originally Posted by abill_uk View Post
Originally Posted by Kilian View Post
apt-get --purge remove package_name
That is not a complete way to un-install any package as it will not fix anything written to the os as the damage is already done.
The average N900 phone user isn't likely to go overboard experimenting with stuff from the forums or anything marked testing or experimental. If they do, they can probably figure out where to look for help as well.

Anyways, installing stuff beyond "factory-tested" always comes with some level of risk (functionality, privacy, puff of smoke etc. ...). This kind of indiscriminate warning against installing apps however is slightly silly.

Maybe that's one reason why the Meego project (the next version of OS) is planning to adopt the new but fast-developing BTRFS filesystem, which, among other things, saves storage space and <drumroll> allows the user to "roll back" earlier states of the file system, all the way back to factory settings.

"Accidentally" deleted your addressbook or half of the OS? No probs, restart the device, select the restore option, then the desired rolled-back date in the menus and it's like nothing ever happened...
 
cjard is offline cjard
2010-05-16 , 08:09
Posts: 225 | Thanked: 64 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#28
Originally Posted by Peet View Post
Maybe that's one reason why the Meego project (the next version of OS) is planning to adopt the new but fast-developing BTRFS filesystem, which, among other things, saves storage space and <drumroll> allows the user to "roll back" earlier states of the file system, all the way back to factory settings.
How can a file system save storage space, but also remember every state it has been in? That seems completely contradictory
 
abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2010-05-16 , 08:14
Banned | Posts: 3,412 | Thanked: 1,043 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#29
Originally Posted by geneven View Post
I don't think that having to reflash is a fate worse than death. I don't think that hysterically exaggerating the dangers of applications that you haven't even named is particularly helpful. And we already have been warned into the ground that extras-devel programs might not be entirely safe.

I think that's enough warnings. I think that the real problem with reflashing is that it became harder with the N900 than it was with the N810 or the N800, which is dumb. It should have been made easier.
Warnings in place are good enough i think as they do explain in full the risks involved, what i was mainly referring too was the un-install code written into the app as this is probably the most important part of the app for various reasons.
Untill the un-install code is written and tested and put through as a needed safe procedure for an app to gain application status on this forum we are going to have continuous occuring problems which in reality should not be there to start with if you think about this logically.
And indeed the flashing procedure is becoming more difficult simply because the wrong or incomplete .bin file does not overwrite the os completely to bring the device back to a working environment.
 
daffydk is offline daffydk
2010-05-16 , 08:18
Posts: 23 | Thanked: 5 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ Esbjerg - Denmark
#30
apt-get remove app.. has always worked in linux env. and has always cleaned the files that has been changed on installed..

apt-get is a STRONG tool and keeps track on what is installed and where..



sure dont mess with init and such thing they do indeed mess up the system if you dont know what your doing .. but hey linux is a great thing and its ment to be meessed up some times ..

think of it that its a great way to clean up your system LOL
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Love my N900
 

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