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2007-06-27
, 18:36
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Posts: 641 |
Thanked: 27 times |
Joined on Apr 2007
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#22
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Originally Posted by geneven
Last time I checked, every form of execution is irreversible. That's the point. I'm not saying kill everyone, but like the movie said, "Some people just need killin" ie, murderers, rapists, that sort of thing. The whole court system is screwed up. I can go to prison for a longer time if I pirate a dvd than if I kill someone. If I'm rich enough, and I do the same, I'd probably just get house arrest.
I doubt that the death penalty is necessary as self-defense in the US for any reason. In Columbia, it's a different story, where drug dealers can do anything and get away with it. In Iraq, you have an unstable situation (thanks to the US) in which there are big risks in keeping certain people alive. In such cases, killing someone who would like to kill you is simply a matter of self defense.
The problem with the low-expense 45 to the head execution is that it is non-reversible, and innocent people always end up being killed when a non-complex execution method is used. Public opinion becomes the reason for executing people, and the public is motivated by rage over a crime, and the rage is focused on whoever is accused regardless of whether they are fully culpable.
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2007-06-27
, 18:45
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Posts: 5,795 |
Thanked: 3,151 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Agoura Hills Calif
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#23
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"Murderers, rapists, that sort of thing." That is exactly the scary attitude that bothers me. The casualness. Just plug 'em in the head, and we'll investigate next week. We know this guy is guilty because someone like him was definitely identified. Oh well, we thought he was guilty. He probably deserved it anyway.
"Some people just need killing": fat cat industrialists, famous people, etc. That would be what terrorists think. The distinction isn't that broad. I don't think we should go down that road. Next stop: Iraq, Lebanon.
"Some people just need killing": fat cat industrialists, famous people, etc. That would be what terrorists think. The distinction isn't that broad. I don't think we should go down that road. Next stop: Iraq, Lebanon.
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2007-06-27
, 19:00
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#24
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Originally Posted by barry99705
If you screw up, you can't fix it. We know innocents have been released from death row (often with an unbelievable pride-driven fight from prosecutors), especially here in Texas. They were placed there wrongly. Kill them, and there's no way to correct that unacceptable mistake. Put them away for life, and while you can't give them back lost years, the State can (and occasionally does) find a way to compensate them.
Last time I checked, every form of execution is irreversible. That's the point. I'm not saying kill everyone, but like the movie said, "Some people just need killin" ie, murderers, rapists, that sort of thing. The whole court system is screwed up. I can go to prison for a longer time if I pirate a dvd than if I kill someone. If I'm rich enough, and I do the same, I'd probably just get house arrest.
Since we know wrongfully-convicted innocents have been discovered on death row, then we know that probability alone demonstrates we've executed innocents too. Sorry, I can't accept that. Period. You support whatever your conscience allows, though.
No reason for me to riff on the "screwed up justice system" meme. We all know that. Best way to work toward rectification is vote in leaders who demonstrate a willingness to apply common sense to the problem. That includes a complete cessation of incarcerating drug addicts IMO... for starters. Part of the libertarian credo, right?
/rant
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2007-06-27
, 20:25
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Posts: 641 |
Thanked: 27 times |
Joined on Apr 2007
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#25
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Originally Posted by geneven
If you read my previous posts, you'd have seen my comment on multiple eye witnesses, and self confessions. I'm not saying it's perfect, nothing is. Putting someone away for life doesn't fix anything either though. Those people have better living conditions than a lot of people I know, that aren't in jail. If they aren't guilty then why do we build "super-max" prisons? That's a whole lot of tax payers money being spent for people who have no regard for their fellow man. Call it callous, or cold, but I've already raised my hand and swore to protect my country. I've already been to places where they don't speak the same language as me, and most likely would kill me than help me.
"Murderers, rapists, that sort of thing." That is exactly the scary attitude that bothers me. The casualness. Just plug 'em in the head, and we'll investigate next week. We know this guy is guilty because someone like him was definitely identified. Oh well, we thought he was guilty. He probably deserved it anyway.
"Some people just need killing": fat cat industrialists, famous people, etc. That would be what terrorists think. The distinction isn't that broad. I don't think we should go down that road. Next stop: Iraq, Lebanon.
__________________
Just because you are online, doesn't mean you don't have to form a full sentence.
SEARCH! It's probably already been answered.
Just because you are online, doesn't mean you don't have to form a full sentence.
SEARCH! It's probably already been answered.
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2007-06-27
, 21:52
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#26
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Originally Posted by barry99705
Better living conditions? I'll take freedom, thanks. Besides, don't blame the solution for the implementation. Just because some prisoners aren't treated as harshly as you may prefer don't preach as if it HAS to be that way. Obviously life without parole shouldn't be a country club, but neither should it be inhumane torture IMO-- regardless of the crime committed. Let's as a society be better than the criminals, eh?
If you read my previous posts, you'd have seen my comment on multiple eye witnesses, and self confessions. I'm not saying it's perfect, nothing is. Putting someone away for life doesn't fix anything either though. Those people have better living conditions than a lot of people I know, that aren't in jail. If they aren't guilty then why do we build "super-max" prisons? That's a whole lot of tax payers money being spent for people who have no regard for their fellow man. Call it callous, or cold, but I've already raised my hand and swore to protect my country. I've already been to places where they don't speak the same language as me, and most likely would kill me than help me.
And again: it costs more to the taxpayers to execute someone than incarcerate them for life. Of course, if you prefer we abandon the current system of due process to cut cost then that's your choice... but do note that it would mean even MORE innocents executed. Could YOU be the one to execute an innocent person?
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2007-06-28
, 00:45
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Posts: 641 |
Thanked: 27 times |
Joined on Apr 2007
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#27
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Where did I say anything about getting rid of due process? I never said anything about torture either. I'm all about a fair trial, I don't even mind keeping people in prison for years and years. It's the people in super-max's that will never see life outside the fence, that riot because their cable tv went out that I'm talking about. People like Charlie Manson, why the hell is he still breathing? Better living conditions, yes, I know people who would take three guarantied meals a day and a roof over their head at the loss of their freedom. Could I be the one to execute someone that was tried and sentenced to death? You bet.
Last edited by barry99705; 2007-06-28 at 02:07.
__________________
Just because you are online, doesn't mean you don't have to form a full sentence.
SEARCH! It's probably already been answered.
Just because you are online, doesn't mean you don't have to form a full sentence.
SEARCH! It's probably already been answered.
Last edited by barry99705; 2007-06-28 at 02:07.
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2007-06-28
, 01:57
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Posts: 5,795 |
Thanked: 3,151 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Agoura Hills Calif
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#28
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Manson is more valuable as an example than as a martyr.
Note the rise of suicide bombings and murder-suicides. What does it mean? For one thing, I think it means that people appreciate the ability to do something that prevents them from feeling regret or embarassment because of their crimes. The opposite of murder/suicide is murder/life imprisonment.
Note the rise of suicide bombings and murder-suicides. What does it mean? For one thing, I think it means that people appreciate the ability to do something that prevents them from feeling regret or embarassment because of their crimes. The opposite of murder/suicide is murder/life imprisonment.
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2007-06-28
, 02:08
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Posts: 3,096 |
Thanked: 1,525 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ Michigan, USA
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#29
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Originally Posted by barry99705
There is no sense in trying to make someone understand your point of view, when they are so obviously not even listening to what you are saying.
Where did I say anything about getting rid of due process? I never said anything about torture either. I'm all about a fair trial, I don't even mind keeping people in prison for years and years. It's the people in super-max's that will never see life outside the fence, that riot because their cable tv went out that I'm talking about. People like Charlie Manson, why the hell is he still breathing? Better living conditions, yes, I know people who would take three guarantied meals a day and a roof over their head at the lose of their freedom. Could I be the one to execute someone that was tried and sentenced to death? You bet.
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,680194149,00.html
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nat...ws-nationworld
I suppose we should keep this guy around for another 60 years and give him some more medical treatment.
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2007-06-28
, 03:36
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#30
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Originally Posted by barry99705
That wasn't what I asked.
Could I be the one to execute someone that was tried and sentenced to death? You bet.
Could you be the one who executed an innocent person?
yes or no.
Originally Posted by penguinbait
My nominee for best unintended irony of the day.
There is no sense in trying to make someone understand your point of view, when they are so obviously not even listening to what you are saying.
The problem with the low-expense 45 to the head execution is that it is non-reversible, and innocent people always end up being killed when a non-complex execution method is used. Public opinion becomes the reason for executing people, and the public is motivated by rage over a crime, and the rage is focused on whoever is accused regardless of whether they are fully culpable.