Notices

Originally Posted by king Ralphred

Anything that adds functonality to the phone should be included.

Originally Posted by sixwheeledbeast

This I have also mentioned as I also think stable-thumb is the future. Having CSSU-thumb replace CSSU would involve forcing EVERYONE to upgrade there kernel to KP or KCSSU. Replacing a kernel has more issues than replacing packages. For starters we don't know everybody's setup and this may result in unbootable devices. Personally I feel many still use the N900 for it's UI. The purpose of CSSU is to prolong the use of our devices by providing updates and bugfixes not UI.

Originally Posted by freemangordon

@sixwheeledbeast: replacing the kernel is not that scary as it seems. We know about 3 things that will break if we replace omap1 with KP-clone:

1. fcam
- repaired by installing fcam drivers built against the kernel, we may even put such a build in the repo
2. joikuspot
- not sure about that one, there are a couple of FOSS alternatives
3. powertop
- this one is tricky, it doesn't stop to work, but gives some bogus info about CPU frequencies. And it was decided that OC patch will not go into kcssu-to-be on the first round.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't see any of ^^^ being a showstopper.

Originally Posted by qwazix

Choice is king but this argument can work the same until we ship empty phones and leave everybody create their distro from scratch.[...]
Not all their users have the time or even think about to break the metapackage and test alternatives to see for themselves that they are better. Let's use our collective wisdom to provide them with a better product. It's not depriving them of choice, they can always revert.

Originally Posted by freemangordon

[...]He/she will have the option to either keep the current setup (sorry, no CSSU for you ) or to fix it in a way to be compatible with CSSU and kcssu.

Originally Posted by king Ralphred

I don't even know what FOSS means. However, would it be possible to include a community decided set of programs in cssu? So that when you reflash your n900, you install 1.3 and then cssu and then you phone is set up. A cssu with nitdroid would be good. I installed nitdroid useing the beta 3 installer on my main phone and did exactly the same thing on my second but got guru meditation and reboot loop.
Things I use
OMWeather
Cutetube
OMP
H-E-N
Qcpufreq
Mobile hotspot
Transission
The tramps treasure (for obvious reasons)

Anything that adds functonality to the phone should be included.

Originally Posted by joerg_rw

Sorry, you either missed some important detail or you lost me on your argumentation chain. I always stated that freedom of choice is an indispensable property of FOSS and particularly CSSU, and that the CSSU team is not really happy with replacing the forced-by-Nokia selection by any other forced-by-whomever selection.
Metapackage (in the form we got it now) is a synonym for NO-CHOICE, since it links a set of apps hard and user has the only choice of "take it or leave it" (I lately opted for the latter for my daily phone).
Breaking up the old metapackage is mandatory and it's not meant to get done by user (my opting for "leave it" above results from me doing such breaking the old metapackage to get stuff I needed, and thus any new update would revert all the breaks to metapackage I have done). Rather it is the developers and CSSU-maintainers who need to get sh*t sorted and replace the old locking-in MP by a CSSU version that allows depending on provided features rather than package names and precise revisions - in short, fix the buggy old MP so users are free to replace CSSU FOSS versions by stock versions(!!) whenever they like - for each single package separately and without messing up their system so badly that it either won't update on next CSSU release or reverts all the choices the user made to customize his system (CSSU -> stock camera/mediaplayer/whatever).
Nobody ever suggested to require users to opt in for every single CSSU package, I'd consider this extremely silly and would strictly vote against it. Rather we should have 2 or even more alternative new fixed MP (or other similar gear) to allow users to choose from a number of reasonable presets (already been suggested before in this thread as "bugfix" and "FOSS" repos - though we won't probably use different repos for that) - again, PRESETS that user is free to modify to his liking in the limits that a working system allows. For example there's no reason why users can't uninstall modest (mail) all together, even when they never need it. This is a BUG in stock maemo, and it needs to get fixed. I think it's a thoroughly broken philosophy to force a new replacement for a stock app onto users and not give them the option to revert or completely uninstall that package - in my book such a new package still has same bug as the old package: it can't get uninstalled. Buggy packages shouldn't get into CSSU.

Please don't try to find arguments why we need to force a certain set of apps onto users, no matter what the particular set.

cheers
jOERG

Originally Posted by qwazix

I don't disagree. I just view the metapackage as a seperate bug, not as a bug in each of the included applications. Now we could argue which has the highest priority, fixing the metapackage or fixing the bugs in included apps (by replacing them with FOSS ones).