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sulu	2014-12-05 , 09:33
Posts: 915 \| Thanked: 3,209 times \| Joined on Jan 2011 @ Germany	#21

Originally Posted by Tigerroast

With that said, would having both a Pyra and Neo900 be redundant?

Sort of. But there's nothing wrong with having backups.

Originally Posted by Tigerroast

Do you carry your phone in a bag (if you carry bags, that is)?

Iff I carry a bag (or a jacket), I carry my phone in it.
Since that's not always the case I sometimes carry my phone in my trousers pocket.
As I already said elsewhere that would make the Neo900 my summer device while the Pyra would be my winter device.

Originally Posted by Tigerroast

Do you feel comfortable pulling out something resembling a 3DS to do office work on-the-move or even to text friends?

What's wrong with that?
If my friends care so much about the looks of my phone that they feel offended by it, I should probably change my friends instead of my phone.

Originally Posted by Tigerroast

There's also a major caveat to using the Pyra as a companion device that's rather unique to the Pyra- its features and how many of them are useful on-the-move. While having heaps of features is usually a good thing, a significant chunk of those features won't enhance your portable computing, thus making the user the primary bottleneck as to what features are used on-the-move.

Huh?

Originally Posted by Tigerroast

Idk about you, but I haven't seen many people carrying around hard drives with their eSATA cables in tow just to piss off iPhone users.

Well, I do - apart from the IPhone user's thing. If they feel pissed off by me carrying an eSATA HDD then that's their problem, not mine. I simply don't care.

Originally Posted by Tigerroast

While it's not uncommon to carry a USB stick with you, I don't know of anyone who carries two of them.

Me again - sometimes!
I grew up with Mac Gyver, which means there are certain things I ALWAYS carry around. That of course includes the mandatory swiss knife, and among other things also its digital counterpart which is a USB stick with a rescue Linux (Porteus nowadays).
So if I want to give someone some data on a USB stick I carry two of them around.

Originally Posted by Tigerroast

Also, having speakers on a handheld that don't totally s_it the bed isn't bad, but why not carry some headphones for a bit of privacy (and courtesy)? Don't want to carry headphones or a headset? Then how do you expect to make use of the 3G modem for a quick chat with your friend?

Turn the volume down and use the speaker?

Originally Posted by Tigerroast

For the Pyra, there's already talk about the 1st hardware upgrade in the distant future to an AMD-based SoC, which means MUCH better open-source graphics support than PowerVR. However, that's far from materializing right now.

The nice thing about the Pyra is, that its SoC is on a seperate board. So a potential upgrade would only require you to replace this one board instead of the whole device or all it's electronics.
Michael Mrozek, the head Pyra developer, recently said on a presentation he gave during OHSW [1] that such an upgrade board would probably cost 150 Euros.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkr49EnxsdM

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	Estel	2014-12-05 , 12:39
	Posts: 5,028 \| Thanked: 8,613 times \| Joined on Mar 2011	#22

What sulu said, + I consider Pyra a notebook replacement (for most cases), just like I use N900 as notebook replacement, nowadays (+ as a main phone).

The plus of Pyra is that it's going to fulfill the notebook replacement thing *much* better than Neo900, and phone functionality is nice bonus, that means I won't need to carry a "dumb phone" with me. B'cause, really, the notebook functionality on the go in my pocket is *much* more important than phone-like ones - for the latter, one can carry ultra-lightweight "dumb"phone with battery life exceeding anything that "smartphones" or "phablets" offer, sometimes by order of magnitude.

Now, many major things for notebook-in-pocket replacement - like connecting to external monitor/tv - are natural on Pyra, while remaining "maybe" (and requiring some hooping through the flaming loops) on the Neo900.

Last but not least = this post wouldn't be complete without mentioning that - the "minor" fact that Pyra comes from people that did successful projects in the past is "the"*thing too, for me. Neo900 leadership have a background of scorched earth, burned bridges, rage quits and unfulfilled promises. IMO, this marks the difference between "promising project" and "vaporware".

/Estel

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reinob	2014-12-05 , 12:44
Posts: 1,808 \| Thanked: 4,272 times \| Joined on Feb 2011 @ Germany	#23

@Estel,

I partly agree with you. Particularly on having a really small portable/pocketable *computer* (whether Pyra or Neo900: I'll take both if/when I can), even at the expense (or rather, with the advantage) of having a separate, special-purpose *phone*.

Ranting about Neo900 has no place here and I certainly wouldn't consider it vaporware.

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	Estel	2014-12-05 , 13:03
	Posts: 5,028 \| Thanked: 8,613 times \| Joined on Mar 2011	#24

Comparing pros and cons != ranting. My comparison touched many aspects, and the "last but not least" one is, IMO, also important one - if I would have to decide where put my money, it would be important to me, what history of (un)successful cooperations person behind a project is having.

I'm sorry if it touched your holy grail, but mentioning this flaw of Neo900 is as appropriate, as it would be if, for example, team behind deceased Vivaldi tablet would announce "new, awesome linux-powered device".

/Estel

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	HtheB	2014-12-05 , 13:34
	Moderator \| Posts: 3,718 \| Thanked: 7,420 times \| Joined on Dec 2009 @ Bize Her Yer Trabzon	#25

The Pyra has 3G+4G capabilities. Who knows, maybe they can add calling functionality to it?

I'm following the Pyra development for a long time now, and I'm very excited about this!

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	HtheB	2014-12-05 , 16:37
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Originally Posted by nokiabot

The praya can also get a opt in soc upgrade (amd 64 bit with radeon gpu ) in future if that happens no powervr mess !

The praya?
What's a praya?

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	nokiabot	2014-12-05 , 17:12
	Posts: 1,974 \| Thanked: 1,834 times \| Joined on Mar 2013 @ india	#27

Ahh its pyra looks like i never noticed that

pyra i.e lovely in hindi

so cute name ;

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Tigerroast	2014-12-05 , 17:16
Posts: 102 \| Thanked: 171 times \| Joined on Nov 2014	#28

My last paragraph. 'Tis the most important clarification I could offer on my position. The Pyra is a niche device, and isn't for everyone as a result. Also, I'll say it again: it's really up to each individual to determine if the Pyra will work for them as a companion device.

Originally Posted by sulu

Sort of. But there's nothing wrong with having backups.

As I mentioned previously, I think the Pyra could definitely replace all of one's spare phones, with ease.

Iff I carry a bag (or a jacket), I carry my phone in it.
Since that's not always the case I sometimes carry my phone in my trousers pocket.
As I already said elsewhere that would make the Neo900 my summer device while the Pyra would be my winter device.

Bam. You already got a plan. Good on ya!

What's wrong with that?

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that. That's why the question was asked as a "you" question.

I sometimes bring my 3DS with me for a long bus ride or if I know I'm going to be waiting for a while (doctor visits, dentist appointment), and I feel just fine.

If my friends care so much about the looks of my phone that they feel offended by it, I should probably change my friends instead of my phone.

I don't recall specifying if you'd use it around your friends. Then again, I didn't specify the environment. In any case, I do agree with your sentiment.

Well, I do - apart from the IPhone user's thing. If they feel pissed off by me carrying an eSATA HDD then that's their problem, not mine. I simply don't care.

The iPhone thing wasn't literal. I won't question why you carry around hard drives; that's all on you.

Thus far, the Pyra sounds like your kind of device! Note the "your" in that sentence. Again, I want to be clear that it's an important distinction to make.

Me again - sometimes!
I grew up with Mac Gyver, which means there are certain things I ALWAYS carry around. That of course includes the mandatory swiss knife, and among other things also its digital counterpart which is a USB stick with a rescue Linux (Porteus nowadays).
So if I want to give someone some data on a USB stick I carry two of them around.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If that's what you do, then that's what you do. The Pyra would fit you nicely.

Turn the volume down and use the speaker?

That's your decision. Personally, I always have a decent set of earphones, as they are my favorite method of bombarding my ears with soundwaves. At moderation, of course.

The nice thing about the Pyra is, that its SoC is on a seperate board. So a potential upgrade would only require you to replace this one board instead of the whole device or all it's electronics.

I'm aware. This was made clear relatively early in the Pyra's development.

Michael Mrozek, the head Pyra developer, recently said on a presentation he gave during OHSW [1] that such an upgrade board would probably cost 150 Euros.

He also provided links in his recent announcement thread, which I linked.

Again, I cannot stress this enough. The Pyra's not gonna work for everyone as a companion device, but you'll know if it does. In your case, the Pyra seems like a dream-come-true.

I'm not trying to be the one that says, "Oh, you don't need a Pyra in your life."

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Tigerroast	2014-12-05 , 17:29
Posts: 102 \| Thanked: 171 times \| Joined on Nov 2014	#29

Originally Posted by Estel

What sulu said, + I consider Pyra a notebook replacement (for most cases), just like I use N900 as notebook replacement, nowadays (+ as a main phone).

I feel the same way, as pointed out by what I said about the Pyra being a decent ARM PC. The Pyra can easily replace one's laptop.

The plus of Pyra is that it's going to fulfill the notebook replacement thing *much* better than Neo900, and phone functionality is nice bonus, that means I won't need to carry a "dumb phone" with me. B'cause, really, the notebook functionality on the go in my pocket is *much* more important than phone-like ones - for the latter, one can carry ultra-lightweight "dumb"phone with battery life exceeding anything that "smartphones" or "phablets" offer, sometimes by order of magnitude.

Alright. When you said, "...the notebook functionality on the go in my pocket is *much* more important than phone-like ones...," you forgot the, "...for me," bit. This is essentially the crux of my entire purview; if the Pyra works for you, then it works for you. It won't work for everybody, and as it stands, it's up to each individual to determine that.

With that said, I can see that the Pyra will work for you (as you already determined), and I can respect that.

Now, many major things for notebook-in-pocket replacement - like connecting to external monitor/tv - are natural on Pyra, while remaining "maybe" (and requiring some hooping through the flaming loops) on the Neo900.

Quite the caveat for the Neo900 indeed, should proper video-out not materialize. For the notebook-in-pocket replacement aspect of it, that is.

Last but not least = this post wouldn't be complete without mentioning that - the "minor" fact that Pyra comes from people that did successful projects in the past is "the"*thing too, for me. Neo900 leadership have a background of scorched earth, burned bridges, rage quits and unfulfilled promises. IMO, this marks the difference between "promising project" and "vaporware".

Ouch. Do you fuel your fires with salt? The "v" word, it stings.

I get that you lack faith in the dev team behind the Neo900. We'll see in the near future. No disrespect, but that really doesn't mean much until the results are in. If/when the Neo900 materializes (or not), that's all that matters at the end of the day.

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	Estel	2014-12-05 , 22:52
	Posts: 5,028 \| Thanked: 8,613 times \| Joined on Mar 2011	#30

Originally Posted by Tigerroast

Alright. When you said, "...the notebook functionality on the go in my pocket is *much* more important than phone-like ones...," you forgot the, "...for me," bit.

Of course, everyone's expectation differ - but when discussing device's feasibility, we can skip that, or any point would be moot one (after all, everything may be suitable for someone). When I wrote "more important", I thought about it as "more important for device's success", thats why no "for me bit".

Why? Because phone functionality can be found on gazillion of devices, while (real) desktop-PC-in-pocket is close to non-existent category. Here is a niche for Pyra. IMO - even outside of my personal sentiments - in direct comparison with Pyra, device like Neo900 (if lacking major parts of "desktop pc in pocket") may, at the end of a day, interest people fanatically attached to Hildon-like experience for mobile computing (aka small percent of Maemo users), and thats about it. Pyta gets everything else, which is, like, 99,99% of "geeky" audience?

Funny enough, I considered myself "fanatically attached to Hildon-way of doing mobile computing" not so long ago. Nowadays, I still think that Hildonesque have nice appeal and some great ideas in it, but the more I learn about customizing window managers and lightweight desktop environments (like LXDE) to my liking/special needs, the less and less need for Hildon I see. Certainly, not enough to justify hooping through so many fire loops, like porting Fremantle to anything non-Nokia require, objectively.

Going back to my personal preferences - gimme good power-saving (including really nicely used sleep states of CPU, like on N900), complete control over radio's behavior, etc, and I can easily shrug Hildon off. Time better spent on customizing openbox/LXDE and filling bugs/feature requests where appropriate (also to enhance mobile experience), than desperately trying to keep Fremantle/Hildon from falling apart due to old age (which, incidentally, is starting to fail compiling even basic CLI programs, due to outdated... Everything).

/Estel

Ps.

I'm aware that all possible the N900-like hardware projects should also allow other OS'es than Fremantle, but I can't imagine anyone buying it over Pyra for running something OTHER than FreEmantle on it. Unless one is buying both devices "for the love of projects", but it hardly counts as sustainable customers base, IMO.