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javispedro is offline javispedro
2015-11-20 , 20:08
Posts: 2,355 | Thanked: 5,249 times | Joined on Jan 2009 @ Barcelona
#21
Originally Posted by szopin View Post
Get XWayland running, the 1 million android apps didn't write themselves, so potential market right there. Jolla (the phone) can pull this of. Wanna write your android apps on the go? Run Eclipse or whatever latest IDE on your mobile device. No other android/iOS device can do that (add to that geeks with gimp, even though screen...). Sailfish is a real computing platform, look at all the 'android studio for android' apps in google play store which have barebone features and only java and very limited in that regard. This with mass produced hwkbdOHs would be a differentiating factor (still not for tens of millions of users, but for developers, yeah)
E.g. phones with small/portable docking stations which actually launch a full desktop when docked in.

It's a dream that has been revived many, many times.
 

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nieldk is offline nieldk
2015-11-20 , 20:10
Posts: 1,293 | Thanked: 4,319 times | Joined on Oct 2014
#22
Originally Posted by Dave999 View Post
Apple may have less market share than android but profitwise they are superior.10-15% of market but 60-80 percent of the profit. Buoght an overpriced iPhone plus a week ago and it's a decent smartphone. Jolla forced me...If you can't beat them, join them
Never!

10 chars ...

1. Meego is not dead. It may be crimpled, but its still alive!
2. SailfishOS can live longer (I read the IRC logs) because it has the kind of people behind it that knows why Meego is now crimpled.
If Jolla dies, as a company, I still believe it can live (yes, the Android support is problematic, but I dont want that).

I applause that a few guys had the guts and madness to try!

Why did it fail ?
As said by others, the real market for the Jolla device are developers and Geeks. Not end-users.
A 'final' product should have emerged much faster. Even being on the low-end side.
Perhaps if SailfishOS had continued (or rather started) from a known hardware, and build on that - N9 does come to mind here.
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szopin is offline szopin
2015-11-20 , 20:10
Posts: 2,076 | Thanked: 3,268 times | Joined on Feb 2011
#23
Originally Posted by javispedro View Post
E.g. phones with small/portable docking stations which actually launch a full desktop when docked in.

It's a dream that has been revived many, many times.
N900 could pull this off (QtCreator worked, not sure if anyone tried Android IDEs, probably too old libc/glibc and all the rest), but as a 'developer device' where you can write android apps on it on the bus, redeye, other long journey, or a quick fix? Jolla can do it (QtCreator works), no android phone can thanks to bionic
 

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javispedro is offline javispedro
2015-11-20 , 20:13
Posts: 2,355 | Thanked: 5,249 times | Joined on Jan 2009 @ Barcelona
#24
Originally Posted by szopin View Post
N900 could pull this off (QtCreator worked, not sure if anyone tried Android IDEs, probably too old libc/glibc and all the rest), but as a 'developer device' where you can write android apps on it on the bus, redeye, other long journey, or a quick fix? Jolla can do it (QtCreator works), no android phone can thanks to bionic
I disagree there. Almost any device can certainly run Eclipse or whatever latest IDE. ... in a chroot.

This is not a differentiating factor these days.

On the other hand -- at least for me -- a differentiating factor is that the APIs used in Sailfish were more or less tha same APIs I use on desktop linux. No useless Java layer, no ObjC layer.

So actual desktop linux programs have an higher "integration" with the rest of the phone.

This was not much the case in Sailfish, though...
 

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szopin is offline szopin
2015-11-20 , 20:18
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#25
Originally Posted by javispedro View Post
I disagree there. Almost any device can certainly run Eclipse or whatever latest IDE. ... in a chroot.

This is not a differentiating factor these days.

On the other hand -- at least for me -- a differentiating factor is that the APIs used in Sailfish were more or less tha same APIs I use on desktop linux. No useless Java layer, no ObjC layer.

So actual desktop linux programs have an higher "integration" with the rest of the phone.

This was not much the case in Sailfish, though...
Would love to see that, the 'mini-eclipse for your phone' apps are not only paid in google play store but have thousands of downloads (and thousands of comments that they're sh... why would people bother with that and PAY for it I wonder), quick YT search for 'eclipse on phone' has no videos that would show that actually being demonstrated, which would be strange due to bragging rights for starters
 
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Stskeeps is offline Stskeeps
2015-11-20 , 20:22
Posts: 1,671 | Thanked: 11,478 times | Joined on Jun 2008 @ Warsaw, Poland
#26
Originally Posted by mardy View Post
Well, you wrote it's fiction, so that can certainly be.
But, for a less fictional history, I can tell you that while Ubuntu benefited immensely from your work, we started working on a tablet and phone version of Ubuntu well before libhybris was announced. Initially, we were not planning of building on top of Android. Then some guy started working on leveraging the Android drivers (I have no idea if he succeeded or not) in summer 2012, but then when we learned of libhybris (it was actually me who suggested using it, in August 2012, as soon as I saw your G+ post about it), we decided to use it.

So, I think that, one way or another, we would have Ubuntu Touch anyway.
Yeah, I've heard my share of rumours about it: such as utilizing libmeegotouch . But it certainly accelerated matters: allowing Ubuntu Touch to be able to present a quite decent tech demo @ MWC that year.. and then take quite a long time to bring product to market.
 

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javispedro is offline javispedro
2015-11-20 , 20:22
Posts: 2,355 | Thanked: 5,249 times | Joined on Jan 2009 @ Barcelona
#27
Another thought: smartphones are dead.

Many of us have been here, on this very forum, for quite a long. Even before the iPhone was introduced.

I've been through a period where I could mention "oh, and I have a smartphone" and that would virtually guarantee me a job. Then a period where you'd say "smartphone developer" and they'd fight for your attention -- the shitton of free devices I have is from that era . Then a long period of calming down. Maturing, etc.

And today... well, the smartphone market looks like a dead sea. At least when looking back.

Tomorrow's smartphone market leader will be dictated by how cheap and mass-produced their devices are.

Trying to "disrupt" the smartphone market is equivalent to trying to disrupt the PC sound card market. It just makes no sense.

I guess that's why Stskeeps was careful in saying "the mobile market", and not the smartphone market.
 

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Stskeeps is offline Stskeeps
2015-11-20 , 20:26
Posts: 1,671 | Thanked: 11,478 times | Joined on Jun 2008 @ Warsaw, Poland
#28
Originally Posted by billranton View Post
2. A feature phone powered by tears.
Or a massive 10000mAh battery: http://qz.com/411330/the-mystery-of-...ng-over-ghana/
 

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Copernicus is offline Copernicus
2015-11-20 , 20:28
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#29
Originally Posted by Stskeeps View Post
Exactly. My point being however that it's easy to make any kind of hardware, be it phone or something mutated into a 27" double e-ink AMOLED screen, and stuff your own experience on it and get it produced in large quantities at reasonable prices. -- as long as it's derived from AOSP somehow.

What could that help with?
Hmm. Honestly, it just feels to me like this is asking the question backwards. Whenever you state that you can create mobile device X to serve purpose Y using an OS based on AOSP, I get the feeling that I could already point to an existing mobile device X serving purpose Y that runs Google Play-based Android. Or, at the very least, I could produce such a device. And in doing so, I'd avoid all the costs of creating a new OS, and still be able to sell to users who already have experience (and infrastructure!) running standard Android devices.

If, instead, what you are trying to sell is the OS itself, I think you need to look at the concept of the OS in a new way. The Solu guys are a good example here; they are (bizarrely in my opinion) still tying themselves to a specific hardware device, but their OS is instead mostly cloud-based, and allows you to perform tasks that straddle devices (and the internet itself). In short, they do something that iOS and Android don't do (or, at least, don't do well).

You can't just have a reason why the user would want to use your OS; you've gotta have a reason why the user would use your OS instead of iOS or Android. I don't think you can beat them on usability alone; they are both quite usable for the average consumer. You've gotta have a different argument -- run on older / smaller / stranger hardware than they do, work in ways they cannot, perform tasks they cannot. The privacy argument is good, but privacy isn't a task; there has to be something concrete that the user can do with the device that will cause them to feel the need to purchase it.

Anyway, apologies for the long rants here.

tl;dr: Competing directly OS-to-OS with iOS/Android ain't gonna work. Better to first build up an infrastructure where iOS/Android aren't competing, before trying to go mano-a-mano with them.
 

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Dave999 is offline Dave999
2015-11-20 , 20:30
Posts: 7,075 | Thanked: 9,073 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
#30
Why didn't sail and Ubuntu work together in this parallel universe of fiction?
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