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handaxe is offline handaxe
2016-03-21 , 10:00
Posts: 1,378 | Thanked: 1,604 times | Joined on Jun 2010 @ Göteborg, Sweden
#291
Originally Posted by aegis View Post
Isn't it done because it's just one background push message task instead of each app having it's own?

IE. There's solid engineering reasons not just because a single company wants to look at all your messages... allegedly.
I think you are right. I guess the rationale behind push is to avoid apps polling servers when there is nothing to receive. I wonder how much battery life that saves? Feathers' point is taken - even if there is a good functional reason, it does allow at least potentially, your being monitored at some level.
 

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Feathers McGraw is offline Feathers McGraw
2016-03-21 , 17:52
Posts: 654 | Thanked: 2,368 times | Joined on Jul 2014 @ UK
#292
Originally Posted by aegis View Post
Isn't it done because it's just one background push message task instead of each app having it's own?

IE. There's solid engineering reasons not just because a single company wants to look at all your messages... allegedly.
You're right, but that doesn't mean it's the right choice or it outweighs other technical considerations. I'd rather have ten separate connections to my own server, than just one to a third party.

If there was an open source server that could aggregate all of the messages I receive via email, XMPP etc. that I could run on my own server, then I might use it. Going through a 3rd party to use services you host yourself just sticks in my craw - it's unnecessary, and you lose some security since there's a 3rd party sat in the middle whose behaviour you can't control, and whose data security is unknown.
 

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Feathers McGraw is offline Feathers McGraw
2016-03-21 , 17:54
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#293
Originally Posted by handaxe View Post
I think you are right. I guess the rationale behind push is to avoid apps polling servers when there is nothing to receive. I wonder how much battery life that saves? Feathers' point is taken - even if there is a good functional reason, it does allow at least potentially, your being monitored at some level.
Beat me to it!
 

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aegis is offline aegis
2016-03-21 , 19:45
Posts: 702 | Thanked: 2,059 times | Joined on Feb 2011 @ UK
#294
Originally Posted by Feathers McGraw View Post
If there was an open source server that could aggregate all of the messages I receive via email, XMPP etc. that I could run on my own server, then I might use it.
I'd love one too. At the moment I'm using PushBullet but I'd much rather use my own server(s).

Some FOSS hero just needs to sit down and reimplement https://docs.pushbullet.com

and then Jolla can add the push service support in that accounts API they're about to open..... *tumbleweed*
 

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javispedro is offline javispedro
2016-03-21 , 20:29
Posts: 2,355 | Thanked: 5,249 times | Joined on Jan 2009 @ Barcelona
#295
For instant messaging, mail, etc. push services are utterly useless. The battery wasted is insignificant (if any!), and even if it was, most people would just need to run 1 persistent connection only, and a large majority less than 5 either way.

Virtually the only use case for a push service I can think of is... to push ads from random programs.
 

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handaxe is offline handaxe
2016-03-21 , 22:27
Posts: 1,378 | Thanked: 1,604 times | Joined on Jun 2010 @ Göteborg, Sweden
#296
Originally Posted by javispedro View Post
For instant messaging, mail, etc. push services are utterly useless.
Well, that is emotive language! :-) I believe you really mean that they do not confer any advantage over traditional polling yet they carry the price of privacy invasion.

I am more inclined to agree with you than not.

Actually, on Ubuntu Touch with Telegram, it is rather useful to get push notices of a new post if a conversation hots up a bit and you are busy doing something else but able to cast an eye over a new message every few minutes or 10 of minutes. I doubt one would set a polling interval on a mobile device of 2-5 mins as a norm. And manual refreshing simply is not the same: it becomes something you must remember to do and unhelpful to the flow of the Telegram conversation.

Now, some might not care for this type of discourse, and that is fine, but if you want it, then in the situation I have described here, push notifications may well serve the purpose better than polling.
 

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javispedro is offline javispedro
2016-03-21 , 22:28
Posts: 2,355 | Thanked: 5,249 times | Joined on Jan 2009 @ Barcelona
#297
Originally Posted by handaxe View Post
Well, that is emotive language! :-) I believe you really mean that they do not confer any advantage over traditional polling yet they carry the price of privacy invasion.
The alternative of a push service is not polling. On sane platforms (not Android or iOS) programs can maintain live connections on the background.

Heck, I could keep background sockets even on Palm OS.
 

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gerbick
2016-03-21 , 22:30
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#298
Originally Posted by javispedro View Post
The alternative of a push service is not polling. On sane platforms (not Android or iOS) programs can maintain live connections on the background.

Heck, I could keep background sockets even on Palm OS.
Have any examples? I'm honestly drawing a blank here.
 

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javispedro is offline javispedro
2016-03-21 , 22:34
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#299
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
Have any examples? I'm honestly drawing a blank here.
No version of Maemo or Sailfish has had a push service and yet instant messaging and mail notifications work.

PalmOS had no push service and Jabber instant messaging also worked. This was around the turn of the millennium...
 

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handaxe is offline handaxe
2016-03-21 , 22:36
Posts: 1,378 | Thanked: 1,604 times | Joined on Jun 2010 @ Göteborg, Sweden
#300
And on Maemo N900, the device typically did what if using XMPP, email etc? No challenge, just curious about maintaining sockets in contect of gprs and wifi drop-ins and outs etc.

PS: Ok, I saw your post later :-)
 

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