You've not read this entire thread or any other about Flash around here.

Now I'm really hoping html5 will catch up and make flash useless.

f*** flash, adobe and adobes chief. i'm 100% on apples side, working against them.

There are others, but that's in this thread alone. Seriously... more people here ask about Flashblock and not using/liking Flash than I'd expect. My numbers before, hyperbole. But the fact that there are more than just a few folks that dislike Flash - something that's been around since the early days of Slashdot and the Linux users there - it's... growing.

Saying that people on Slashdot and Linux users dislike flash doesn't really counter my point. There are by far (even greater than the 10 to 1 ratio) a greater number of people using computers, and the internet, who know next to nothing about computers. They just want to be able to use the internet, and not have to worry about missing plugins. They won't know why it isn't working, only that it doesn't! // EDIT : Sorry, missed the part about it growing from there

I really dislike the current iterations of flash, especially on mobile devices, but I wouldn't have any problem with it on my phone if it worked well, and fast, then why would I care that it's flash?

Also, I use flash block on my laptop because I don't want flash applets loading when I go to the page, I want to have the choice to load them, not because I want to filter out all flash content. I also use adblock to filter out adverts, but that doesn't mean I don't like jpegs.

Flash sucks. I hate flash. People who make "websites" that require flash need to find a new line of work. I use adblock and flashblock on all my computers.

That being said, if I have Flash in my N900 I want it to be a current and proper version of Flash. Some sites don't work without Flash. Already there are websites rejecting N900's browser because it doesn't have Flash 10. That will only get worse when Flash 10.1 comes out. The apparently long testing cycle of Nokia firmware releases (and lack of any software updates outside of firmware releases) and Adobe taking for-ev-er to release Flash 10.1 would seem to indicate to me that our chances of ever seeing Flash 10+ on N900 are dwindling rapidly every minute.

I am an optimistic pessimist. I hope for the best but expect the worst.

wrong it will be on the n900
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pee3n...ayer_embedded#!

Would you care to elaborate on that... You know, extraordinary claims require extraordinary arguments. So, why does Flash sucks? What makes it suck? What is the alternative? Why are you so emotional about a vapor that is software (hate is quite a strong emotion)? And at last, why should I find a new line of work (although making sites and solutions that require Flash are just a part of my daily job)?

Would you please enlighten me on what other technology will allow the clients of my company to deploy their services on the web when many of those require real-time, selective strong encryption, live video conferences, RT socket driven games, P2P connections, and many others? I mean short of creating our own platform, development tools and a web browser plugin that we need to convince end users to install...

Yes, exactly, that kind of stuff. Just kidding. I was using hyperbole.

Seriously, I understand that you may use Flash as a cross-platform application development (just as you might choose to use Java, .NET, Qt, gtk+ etc).

I'm mainly referring to standard web sites that don't work properly without Flash, and people who use Flash where Flash is not necessary. For example, if your menu/navigation on your website is flash-only, your site cannot be used by people who don't have flash. That's a problem. If you have a full-screen flash program on your website, AS your website, that's a problem. Sites that provide a noflash option are dwindling.

As a USER of Flash Player, I find it to be slow, annoying and insecure. And yes, when people used Java applets for the same purpose I find that to be slow, unstable and insecure as well... and I also browse with noscript. So, yeah, I'm one of those annoying people.

For example, most entertainment or children's websites are basically just a flash program wrapped in an otherwise empty HTML page. Or a website that is mostly HTML, but uses Flash for menu/navigation and has no other way to navigate the site. They aren't accessible in general.

I think a web site should be functional when all the viewer can see are text and links. If a website can't function without a plug-in, I don't think it should be called a website at all. (For example, the so-called "web-based" Slingplayer, which is really just a Windows binary installed as an add-on in Firefox, launched when you visit a certain web page)

Ok, let's settle this 'argument' once and for all...

No, I may use Adobe AIR as a cross-platform application development, but in that case I'd indeed rather use Qt - getting as close as possible to the hardware layer while not sacrificing uniformity of an app and still being able to use mostly the same code is of a paramount importance for cross-platform development. I'm talking here about cross-browser, cross-platform web development - you know, things that execute within a browser and when a traditional HTML/CSS/JS combo (and that includes the yet-to-be-properly-implemented-and-wide-spread HTML5) just cannot cut it.

I mentioned some of the use-cases where that applies, but there are hundreds more, and it will remain like that even if the full HTML5 draft is to be implemented in each and every browser, to the fullest, and become available tomorrow. Flash has been doing for years, or in many cases even more than a decade, what is proposed to be implemented in the standard HTML5 by 2022, and it will continue to evolve much faster than the HTML in the future as well. Let me share a sacrilegious thought - I'd rather have HTML die out (with ECMA consortium stuck JavaScript) than Flash. And if you are into the web-development business, you should be able to understand why - there is no single aspect of the web that is slowing down web development and making it far more costly than it needs to be than *drumroll* the HTML itself.

So again we have the case of blaming a technology for its irresponsible use? By that definition you can take a pick at C/C++ (or any other language/platform) given that a lot of viruses, trojans, worms, adware, spyware and essentially meaningless apps are developed using that specific language. And don't get me started on the internet itself. Heck, you can blame computers in general for giving the ability to dishonest people to exploit and abuse their power for their own sinister agendas. And at the end you can use the same argument against HTML/CSS/JS combo as well given that its abused far more frequently than Flash.

Here is an entertaining idea - if you don't like some web site, if you think that developers of that website abuse any given technology to make your life a living hell, if you are like me and appreciate the function over the form - how about not going to that specific web site? If the number of visitors to any given web site drops considerably you can bet that the web developers will be forced (and some even fired... out of a cannon... into the Sun...) to produce more user-friendly and appealing solution. It's precisely the reason I don't visit cnn.com and countless of other sites, ever...

What exactly do you find slow, annoying and insecure when it comes to Flash? Or we have, as in the previous example, another case of blaming the technology for its irresponsible use? Flash has won over Java when it comes to in-browser use because it was faster, lighter and far more suited and armed for that specific need, but the question remains the same for Java applets as well. I also browse with NoScript, well, actually with Adblock Plus, but not because there are evil Flash, Java, Silverlight, Unity3D and countless of other technologies, but because there are a lot of idiot developers and even more `marketing geniuses` that exploit such technologies.

Do you honestly think that if we were to banish all but vanilla HTML/JS/CSS on the web, web will become a better place? Where do you think that those idiots of developers and greedy marketers will turn to? That's right, they'll start exploiting HTML/JS/CSS and make a living hell for end-users with those as well, but this time it will be even harder to block them and your favorite ad/idiot blocker will have to spend far more resources to hunt down specific functions and elements tightly integrated within the DOM to banish them out. If you think that `killing Flash` will make your life on the web easier, you are in for a whole bag of hurt should your wish come true.

On the other hand, if those technologies that augment traditional web weren't available, the web would become indeed a sad place. Maybe you, as an end user, cannot really appreciate what's going on in the backstage, but trust me, many of the things you can see today on the web are either powered by or own thanks to those technologies for their existence. Plenty of web solutions of today wouldn't be even possible if not augmented by additional technologies such is Flash.

If you are all for throwing out the baby with the bathwater, there is one fruity company that enthusiastically share your point of view, and you should embrace them right away - their philosophy will make you insanely more happy and you wouldn't have to worry about the things you've expressed in your post. Ever. Although I seriously doubt they are doing that to make you happy, but to exert even more control over their platform and the interwebs; however their `walled garden` approach is also perfectly acceptable alternative to the way things are now. If you side with them you'll get exactly what you seem to wish for - only one way to do things, no out-of-the-box thinking or tinkering, everything should be uniform, and they'll happily make the decisions for you on what should be allowed and what not, what is a good development, what is a good marketing scheme... everything! You can just sit back, relax... and, well, take it up the arse, pardon the harshness...

I, on the other hand, value my personal freedoms far more than a self-appointed right not to be annoyed by idiots, be it marketers or developers, and I'll gladly take all the goodies and all the baddies of the modern web. So I say bring it all in... bring Flash... bring Java... bring Silverlight... bring on the whole shebang! Sure, I'll get annoyed from time to time, I'll have to employ various blockers or at times turn off the respective plugins completely, I'll swear and curse at my monitor when a Coke bottle starts dancing all over my screen, I'll devilishly hope that the whole family of a developer who ate the half of my CPU to show me a goddamn Viagra ad die in a horrible car crash or in a house fire, I'll pray for some Bubba to take that Viagra and rape the marketing smartass who came up with that idea in the first place, and... I wouldn't like it any other way!

I did read the whole thing. And if I was a girl I would want to have your babies.

I actually agree with a fair bit of what you say, but not this. The web has to evolve in a way that builds on and preserves what has come before. That is why we can still open up the very first web page in today's browsers without the slightest hitch. Yes, this means things move more slowly than is possible, but it makes the web more robust. And I don't know of any language or environment that boasts the level of backwards and forwards compatibility of HTML, while still accommodating the level of innovation that it does. (I also don't know of any environment that is as hackable as HTML, but that's another matter.)

Having said that, I think technologies like Flash should continue to exist so long as they continue to push the envelope. I do think that Flash will die one day (aside from the kind of emulators we use today for long dead consoles and computers) but I hope it's because we have chosen to move to something more powerful, and not because some control-freak despot has decided we aren't intelligent enough to make the choice ourselves.

Android 2.2 with Flash 10.1

http://www.osnews.com/story/23275/Ad...roid_Impresses

Quote
The release of Flash 10.1 for Android is tied to the release of Android 2.2 "Froyo", which Google is expected to unveil at this year's Gogle I/O conference later this month.
Qnquote

What about N900 users. Can we at least get the pr 1.2 to make us happy :-)

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