Everyone else has caught up and Nokia has been left behind - Page 31 - maemo.org

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Enyibinakata	2010-04-24 , 06:29
Posts: 288 \| Thanked: 196 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ London	#301

Originally Posted by ysss

I think this summer the feeling of 'left behind' will be markedly reinforced as apple release their new iPhone and OS. It wouldn't be a stretch to predict that mobile IP Video conferencing is gonna be THE feature people will be asking about when they talk about smart phones as apple hypes it up to sell their new handset.

This is trend is predictable... this feature is doable on the N900... yet why isn't there any visible development of N900 in that area? It would feel as if we've known what's coming all along and we're not doing a thing to stop it.

@enyibinikata: mono speaker? seriously dude.. how stereo can you get with a couple of inches of separation?

Try blasting music from e.g. mobbler on the Nokia 5800XM. Its brilliant and clear as day. I hate mono speakers and no, I dont want to buy an expensive music dock. I am glad to see Nokia is still using stereo spkrs but fear they may go the 'tinny' mono way of the rest.

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	ysss	2010-04-24 , 06:35
	Posts: 4,384 \| Thanked: 5,524 times \| Joined on Jul 2007 @ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou	#302

Originally Posted by Enyibinakata

Try blasting music from e.g. mobbler on the Nokia 5800XM. Its brilliant and clear as day. I hate mono speakers and no, I dont want to buy an expensive music dock. I am glad to see Nokia is still using stereo spkrs but fear they may go the 'tinny' mono way of the rest.

I don't think that was due to 'stereo' configuration. More like it's because they put higher quality driver that can drive more power and has better range and/or also acoustic design within the phone's casing.

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Enyibinakata	2010-04-24 , 08:21
Posts: 288 \| Thanked: 196 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ London	#303

Originally Posted by ysss

I don't think that was due to 'stereo' configuration. More like it's because they put higher quality driver that can drive more power and has better range and/or also acoustic design within the phone's casing.

Interesting. Thanks for pointing that out. But the truth is that it sounds better than the rest and costs way less. I remain upset I foolishly paid so much for an IPod Touch with a weak speaker (I had to buy a JBL dock for £100 which I cant take everywhere) when I could have just got the 5800XM plus phone and better sound quality for fa far less. Apple is a ripoff company and I will never be mugged by them again - ever.

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	ysss	2010-04-24 , 10:00
	Posts: 4,384 \| Thanked: 5,524 times \| Joined on Jul 2007 @ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou	#304

Originally Posted by Enyibinakata

Interesting. Thanks for pointing that out. But the truth is that it sounds better than the rest and costs way less. I remain upset I foolishly paid so much for an IPod Touch with a weak speaker (I had to buy a JBL dock for £100 which I cant take everywhere) when I could have just got the 5800XM plus phone and better sound quality for fa far less. Apple is a ripoff company and I will never be mugged by them again - ever.

I don't understand why you feel ripped off by the above example though. As far as I know, there are ALWAYS iPhones or iPod Touch demo units to try in all Apple Stores. They're so prevalent that you're quite likely to find sample units in smaller unauthorized shops too (the owner or sales person's own iphone/touch for example)... and I've never seen any ads that advertise the awesome speaker capabilities of iphone/touch.... and if this is such an important requirement for you, I'm sure you'd seek it out in reviews or test it yourself before making the purchase. I just gotta say though, don't expect much from ANY build-in speakers that are attached to handphones, pmp or netbooks.

ps: I must say the speaker on 3GS unit sound so much better than the 2G or 3G one.

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Laughing Man	2010-04-24 , 11:19
Posts: 4,556 \| Thanked: 1,624 times \| Joined on Dec 2007	#305

Originally Posted by ysss

For sure

Anyway, that's a numbers game. As long as they think they can recoup the marketing costs, why shouldn't anyone in the business do the same?

To put things in perspective, I think for a company the size of Nokia, the investments in OS is miniscule. Look at what Palm has done with their much limited resources (compared to Nokia or Apple). Granted their execution is failing flat on its face, I think Palm has designed and implemented the WebOS quite well.

What's stopping Nokia to license Android anyway?
They can even spin off a different company to run it if they want to keep it off from 'tainting' their brands.
See also: Vertu

I'm not sure if you could say miniscue investment without clarifying it (time, money, etc..). For example to support an OS you have to be actively fixing it (the more developers the better). You have to be actively promoting the OS as well (Apple, Android). You have to make connections with developers and other companies to interest them in your platform. And I think probably to the heads of Nokia, they think that given Maemo and Symbian, one which has the proven userbase (Symbian) that they should invest more of their time into Symbian rather than Maemo.

Originally Posted by ysss

Yeah but I can't help to wonder...

What if the N900 comes in two flavors?

Or maybe defaults with Android for the 'masses' and optionally you can download and install maemo and dual boot it.

I'm betting that would set fire to the N900. Think of how much coverage (mindshare) it would garner as it rides the Android news wave. How all the new android handsets will be compared with the N900, etc. Maemo would become a trojan OSS payload within a popular handset.

That would be wonderful (I'm always up for choice

).

As for why they don't.. I don't know. I don't even think there is a stringent licensing requirement from Google (unlike Microsoft's Windows 7 Phone series). Unless you have to pay Google to use their app store? Or maybe they're just afraid they will wind up as an Android hardware maker.

Originally Posted by wmarone

I suppose if you -wanted- Android, that'd be great. Including Maemo et. al. at that point would be a waste of space, since you'd effectively be conceding to Android.

Personally, I'd consider that a loss.

Maybe if you consider Maemo as a smartphone OS (which I think it makes for a terrible one). But I think Maemo could supplement Android by providing the mobile computer side of things.

For example, need your device in smartphone mode (e.g. your not doing anything that needs the mobile computer aspect) then just use Android. Then boot into Maemo when you need to edit a document, give a presentation, or whatever the heck you do (or not do necessarily since my use case is probably not prevelant). And you still retain phone call functionality in case someone calls you. Of course the boot switching has to be fast.

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Originally Posted by ysss

They're maemo and MeeGo...

"Meamo!" sounds like what Zorro would say to catherine zeta jones... after she slaps him for looking at her dirtily...

Last edited by Laughing Man; 2010-04-24 at 11:21.

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	volt	2010-04-24 , 11:27
	Posts: 1,309 \| Thanked: 1,187 times \| Joined on Nov 2008	#306

Originally Posted by Laughing Man

I disagree with your post (about it being a computer)

That the N900 is a mobile computer is Nokia's words, and by the definition of a computer, all modern cell phones are. Both documented from the other post. Facts > opinions.

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Crashdamage	2010-04-24 , 12:19
Posts: 670 \| Thanked: 747 times \| Joined on Aug 2009 @ Kansas City, Missouri, USA	#307

Originally Posted by Laughing Man

I think probably to the heads of Nokia, they think that given Maemo and Symbian, one which has the proven userbase (Symbian) that they should invest more of their time into Symbian rather than Maemo.

Not being a longtime Nokia user I'm not up on company history. Continuing to invest more in Symbian than Maemo/MeeGo would clearly be a serious mistake given the way mobile devices are evolving. But I think their actions lately show they realize MeeGo is the future for high-end devices now, will work down into the midrange later and Symbian will eventually be on low-end 'dumbphone' devices only. So even the suits upstairs apparently are catching on.

As for why they don't (release Android phones). I don't know. I don't even think there is a stringent licensing requirement from Google (unlike Microsoft's Windows 7 Phone series). Unless you have to pay Google to use their app store? Or maybe they're just afraid they will wind up as an Android hardware maker.

Both. And other reasons.

Android is not really a very open system, especially if you want to include any of the Google stuff that makes it attractive to many users. This gives a decent overview of what I mean:
http://www.visionmobile.com/blog/201...-android-evil/

If Nokia went Android, they'd be just another Motorola or HTC. MeeGo gives them a chance to go beyond Android's capabilities and re-establish themselves as tech leaders, not just another Samsung, and to add value to the Nokia brand.

Android also has some serious technical limitations, mostly related to the Davlik VM.

There's the Big Brother is Watching factor, which makes Android an automatic FAIL for me.

Maybe if you consider Maemo as a smartphone OS.

It's not, it's much more. It's a mobile computing OS. And that's largely where its real value is, what sets it apart (along with being relatively open).

I think Maemo could supplement Android by providing the mobile computer side of things.

For example, need your device in smartphone mode (e.g. your not doing anything that needs the mobile computer aspect) then just use Android. Then boot into Maemo when you need to edit a document, give a presentation, or whatever the heck you do (or not do necessarily since my use case is probably not prevelant). And you still retain phone call functionality in case someone calls you. Of course the boot switching has to be fast.

Even if you consider the phone functions of Maemo to be a kludge (I don't) isn't dual-booting to change functions much worse?

I have an Android phone, I'll never buy another. Been there, done that, won't get fooled again.

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Last edited by Crashdamage; 2010-04-24 at 13:02.

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	daperl	2010-04-24 , 12:55
	Posts: 2,427 \| Thanked: 2,986 times \| Joined on Dec 2007	#308

I think the very latest MeeGo news has changed everything. As I've said before, the n900 is a one-off. A pure transitional device. It's got a f*ckin' stylus for f*ck sake! Everyone raise their hands who think Nokia will ever use a resistive screen again in one of their high end devices. Okay, one guy. Sorry one guy, you're sh*t out of luck.

So, regardless of the OS, all Nokia handsets after the Missing Link, formally known as the n900, will and do have mainstream form factors. Now, combine that with the latest Qt eye candy. Cool, let's add in an OS. Take your pick: Symbian, MeeGo, Harmattan, LG's MeeGo, ..., etc. If Qt 4.7 can truly hide 98% of the OS from the application developer, f*ck Android. Again, with the latest MeeGo news, porting Android might have just gotten a hundred times easier. And without even knowing it, I could be a Symbian developer by this time next year.

Lastly, let's add in all the Symbian handsets that Nokia will sell in the next 18 months. There's no good reason why Nokia should throw in the OS towel at this point. Or ever, really.

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NokTokDaddy	2010-04-24 , 13:07
Posts: 248 \| Thanked: 240 times \| Joined on Mar 2010 @ Wiltshire, UK	#309

@daperl:

Interested in your views on the stylus/cap vs rest screen.

I find the stylus useful and most effective, especially for picking small links when browsing without having to zoom. IMO that's a huge advantage over the otherwise excellent cap screen on the X6 I trialed a few weeks ago.

I know guys who use offroad-type GPS favour resist. screen phones for this reason - they need to accurately place waypoints, etc; how can you do that with a chubby forefinger?

I would imagine resist. screens are more resistant to drop damage than (glass) cap. screens. Does anyone know which would be cheaper to manufacture?

Maybe I am your "one guy"...!