I see a lot more "will deploy", "is deploying", and "has licenses for" (or "will sell licenses for") than "has deloyed" or "serves" on that list. And, of the ones that have deployed, they seem to mostly be small deployments (small countries, or just cities within small/medium regions).

I'm not sure which of our perspectives that really sides with.

Will isn't relevant. Has is relevant. Has, at this point, WiMAX deployed thoroughly and widely enough to compete with (at a large regional level) EDGE/HSPA? I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Thus my point.

I'm sure they will. But they don't now, and they certainly didn't when the N810WME was first announced.

I think you've just contradicted yourself... If it's not "Existing", then it's not an "existing WWAN".


I'm also sort of dubious about what you go on to speculate as a multi-protocol strategy that sounds sort of like "LTE in cities, WiMAX in rural areas". Sorry, that doesn't work for me. I'm fine with "high speed in cities, low speed in rural areas". Or "newer in cities, older in rural areas". But not "you need an oranges WWAN in cities, and a bananas WWAN in rural areas". (can't say "apples to oranges" because that might apply to Apple)

What I mean is: having 4G in a city, and 2G/3G in rural areas if fine. Having 4G flavor 1 is the city, and 4G flavor 2 in rural areas is not. It would be like requiring that my phone be able to do both CDMA and GSM (or I have to carry two different phones), because CDMA is only available in cities, and GSM is only available in rural areas. Sorry, that strategy doesn't fly for me. I'm ok with only getting 1xRTT in rural areas, and EVDO in cities; or only getting GPRS/EDGE in rural areas, and HSPA in cities.

IMO, LTE and WiMAX will end up complimenting/competing with each other in the same way CDMA and GSM have. I don't see them being mixed into the same devices.

In hindsight, I am reluctantly agreeing with johnkzin in general.

*sigh*

Yes, the same is true for HSPA+ and LTE. Right now, some networks have rolled out and
1) several statements about future are based on creditable sources
2) statements such as roaming tarrifs are a given too
3) again, some have rolled out. You nor I know much about the success of these

I also said WiMAX is not only an alternative for current 3G. Do I have to repeat that again? I think so...

If you're a 3G user right now it might appear as if you have world-wide coverage. This is not the case. There are insane amounts of costs for roaming. In effect, this means practically there is no 3G for the user unless .... with unless being e.g. the user buys a PAYG subscription with compatible device, or signs up for WiFi hotspots, or buys a WiMAX subscription for a short time.

My perspective takes into that I do know hard data about a lot of these WiMAX networks. I admit I am focussed on 1) areas near me 2) networks when on vacation. If I lived in Amsterdam though, I would not have an expensive broadband subscription nor a 3G subscription; I'd have WiMAX. If I were going on vacation to Amsterdam as well.

No, and AFAIK there aren't roaming agreements. However, it depends on the usage pattern.

N810WME has problem with different frequencies used in WiMAX. This has existed in other 3G as well. Also, if you have a netbook, you can decide which USB packet radio you want to toss in it.

Exactly the point. There are areas where HSPA is non-existant. Same regarding EDGE. Many countries don't even have EDGE at all.

All other points in the list still stand. They all provide substance. Reasons why WiMAX networks are a viable alternative to current options for internet connectivity are clearly outlined in my previous post.

But mate, if you got some sweet sources saying WiMAX has flopped everywhere in the world including in India, be my guest. Share them. Thus far, you've been able to argue N810WME + Sprint/Clearwire is a failure. Nothing more.

I also said WiMAX is not only an alternative for current 3G. Do I have to repeat that again? I think so...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy nor dancing here.

18 months ago, I very much wanted to see WiMAX be the new WWAN of choice. If Sprint had deployed WiMAX here, before September (when I got my G1, and pretty much completely stopped using my N810), I most likely would have bought the N810WME ... perhaps instead of the G1. And, I'd still like to see WiMAX be the dominant 4Gish WWAN. I'm much less optimistic about that happening, so my practical/pragmatic side is starting to look forward to LTE ... but that's neither here nor there. I think an N810 LTE Edition would have been even more ill advised, so this isn't about "which 4G technology would have been best".

My point here isn't about "WiMAX vs LTE, in the future". It's about these last 18 months. In these last 18 months, it would have made orders of magnitude more sense to have announced and deployed an EVDO and/or an HSPA tablet, instead of WiMAX. Therefore, it's no surprise to me to see Nokia pulling back on the N810WME.

And, I suspect I've belabored my point now :-}

HSPA+ and LTE aren't relevant to "what should Nokia have released as a WWAN tablet". Those would be just as ill-advised, 18 months ago, as WiMAX.

Don't compare WiMAX to HSPA+ nor LTE for this discussion. That's pointless. Comparing one half-baked platform to two other half-baked platforms is ... quarter-baked logic. :-)

Compare WiMAX coverage and maturity to GPRS/EDGE/HSDPA/HSUPA and/or 1xRTT/EVDOrev0/EVDOrevA, as of 18 months ago, 12 months ago, 6 months ago, and today. Are you still telling me WiMAX was the right tablet choice for Nokia to have announced and delivered within the last 18 months?

Oh, yes, that explains the widespread availability of WiMax in the country side -- Baltimore and (what was it?) Portland?

I was looking for it in NYC (couldn't be less reliable than Verizon, could it?) - and not even on the map?

I think Nokia's goal was less to expand the IT market by adding WWAN capabilities than to establish a better position (in the US, and in WiMAX) by delivering a unique and desirable product at network launch. (Some device has be the flagship at network launch, why not a Nokia tablet?) Adding a UMTS/HSPA device wouldn't have gained them a similar position.

However, while Xohm has suffered its delays, the N810 has aged, and it's geek-magnet slot is being squeezed by competition from above (Netbooks/MIDs) and below (smartphones). This makes the positional gain less sure, and potentially even risks brand damage by association with Xohm, now viewed as a flop. It also limits expected sales, even if it does get a toehold they can (try to) leverage with the next WiMAX device.

So I think the reason it proves to have been the wrong choice is less because of poor coverage, which any launch device will suffer, and which was planned for, and more because the Xohm delays pushed it out toward the end of the N810's lifespan.

There's been various speculation about the intervening device Nokia "should have" released in time for Christmas 2008, but if one had existed, I'm not sure a Xohm version at release wouldn't still have been a good choice. It's just that you can't carve the foothold Nokia wanted with last year's tech. (And, of course, since Xohm has had so much trouble, I'd need some strong assurance to bet on their rollout going well from here forward.)

LTE wasn't even an official standard 18 months ago. WiMAX is.

As I said before,

For example, if I had UMTS support on my Nokia N810 past 18 months it would be useful throughout my country, but not elsewhere in the world especially not out of EU. Why? Roaming costs...

We're going in circles. Your statements left the N810WME realm and were globally about WiMAX being vapourware (aka dead end). Yeah, in San Jose, CA, USA, North America, Earth perhaps but the world is bigger than that.

N810WME was specifically targetted for US market, for the XOHM network? Are you aware the world is bigger than the USA or North America? I don't like to belittle other countries, nor the relevance of their networks.

Yes, you'd be right Wikipedia List of Deployed UMTS networks is more impressing than Wikipedia List of Deployed WiMAX networks or even Wikipedia List of Deployed HSDPA networks or Wikipedia List of Deployed HSUPA networks. Networks have rolled out right now, and licenses have been sold too. I'td be dumb to buy a license without using it...

Are you aware Aerea is rolled out right now in Amsterdam, and Clearwire in Brussels? That they both want to provide country-wide coverage in 2011? If they succeed in that they are a viable alternative to the 3G and 4G of major mobile telcos. Its as bold as a statement that LTE will be rolled out in 2011. We don't know this for sure either...

Given popularity of netbooks which come with a 3G (UMTS) dongle it'd be easy to also sell these netbooks with WiMAX dongles.

Because my government, based on EU directive, is currently licensing both LTE and WiMAX for 2 additional telcos besides the 3 major ones I do not see why either one would have won already except current infrastructure.

personally, if I could buy a *discounted* wimax tablet I would, even if I knew I'd never be able to use the wimax module, as I'm sure that some enterprising hackers will find a way of removing the module and implanting something useful!

sadly, it looks as if wimax will never reach the UK - the cellular operators spent far too much on 3G licenses to contemplate the kind of investment required to make wimax worthwhile, the credit crunch will kill off any attempts, particularly if 3G can morph into LTE.
3G has only really just started to catch on - operators beginning to fall over themselves to compete in this space with GBP10 or US$16 per month for 3G data-only service with about 3GB per month usage now becoming the norm - you can even buy a pay-as-you-go service where you only take a daily cost!

unfortunately, unlike the USA, free/open wifi at cafes, hotels and restaurants is not the norm, lots of pay services, often operated by the mobile carriers such as T-Mobile and BT's OpenZone, probably to try and keep heavy usage off their 3G networks whose back-haul circuits are under-provisioned.

am disappointed by the whole thing.

I'm pretty sure there were behind-the-scenes conspiratorial/collusional actions to derail Wimax. Verizon is too big, and has too much vested in LTE, to have avoided tampering. Business as usual.