TOH is a lovely gimmick, and i've nothing against sailfish supporting it and sailfish licensees distributing hardware that supports it, but:

It's still a gimmick that seems only tangentially related to the key selling point of the Sailfish experience.

Would i rather have some MediocreV2, or sailfish on high-end hardware with a unique twist of a seconf eink screen.....

Do you even have to ask?

Can't say I agree, if TOH comes closer to its original promise the 2nd time round, then there's a good chance the J2 will stand out much more than it otherwise would have.
They're not able to compete in the raw_specs/price game (we've endlessly gone into detail why that is)*, TOH -if done well- enables them to even the score just that little bit more.

Plus, it gives them another revenue_pool/"ecosystem" (one that's potentially very important for them LT) & way to stimulate growth.
I think they need to stick with it, keep plugging away but iterate/refine faster, & more ambitiously this time round, if they can...

BUT, if Google's Project Ara gets wheels, then maybe they should "throw in the towel" & focus on core_hw/BQ, & doing that much better for the $ than they did with the J1.
And focus more on the sw, especially the sw (i.e. the OS & systems/support for 3rd-party sw), but that should always be the main focus for them, regardless.

If you're saying you'd rather have an excellent Sailfish Handset/Tablet partner (Sony would be nice -but who am I kidding) who's offering much better specs & BQ for the $.
Rather than a J2 that's similarly mediocre hw-wise as the J1 was (for the $), but with the hook of a "new & improved" TOH, well, we're probably in agreement there over which to pick.

*if there's been a deal with Intel that equation may change -but we don't know yet

Now tell me how they should get the money for a second Jolla?

Yet another kickstart? Or do you think investors take a second chance push even more money in the company without payout?

I don't try to offend anyone here, And I definitivly not "pissed at Jolla". But whatever you, or other, may think I am a realist not a teenager with unrealistic dreams.

It's market got damn. If you want sailfishos on phone they need a HW partnet. Maybe some russian upcoming orindian or whatever. But not Jolla itself.

They just recently 'open sourced' (even some jolla guys were surprised to learn that) their business strategy/model - apple pay/google pay way (or steam way, or paypal way, or...) and it is risky, banks don't let go easily:

http://blog.starpointllp.com/blog/?p=4189

Source on business model claims:
from http://techcrunch.com/2015/05/28/jol...rging-markets/

Now there's a useful post... It more clearly expresses why you think there won't be a J2.
Later (time permitting) I'll try to address all of its points, looks like some folk have -to some degree.

I still believe the best way forward for Jolla is to focus on the software only. Forget about services and hardware, its definitely too early for that.

A proper port of SailfishOS to the Nexus 4, Nexus 5, Nexus 6, Nexus 7, Nexus 9 is a good start. That is hindsight thinking though. It would be better off developing a new device by partnering with a Chinese vendor like Oppo, Huawei, Xiaomi, Meizu, Coolpad. Perhaps even one with HTC, Intel, or Foxconn (Nokia N1).


In short, they need to pull a Canonical or a Cyanogen, and get some competitive and/or affordable hardware out. Be it a cheap smartphone, a high-end smartphone, a tablet, a TV box, or a handheld device.

I just don't think crowdsourcing is going to cut it anymore, and I want them to succeed in this uncrowded market (its literally Samsung, Apple, Lenovorola, LG, Huawei and Xiaomi for ~70% of the entire market).

I would've been looking at nVidia, but they have other plans.

I'm in two minds about it; I'm of a similar line of thinking as you in many respects (hinted as much previously), but also mindful that they need as many revenue streams as they can get.
And selling handsets is one of those streams, & selling well is more likely IMO if they have a way to stand out from a hw perspective (not just bq/sw/services).

Just depends on where their finances really are it right now. If you let something like TOH languish too much as "something you'll do later when you're doing much better";
Well, we know what often happens in those scenarios, even with much bigger footnotes in tech history...
But as mentioned they must constantly re-evaluate these things, I don't think it'll hold as much value (even if it's done much better than the 1st time) if Ara gets traction.

I'm not so sure that's a good plan - how many Jolla users are on board because of TOH and the ability to have a hardware keyboard once TOHKBD is released (soon!)?

Maybe I'm just projecting what's important to me onto the rest of you, but I get the feeling it's a sizeable chunk of sailors.

Most other HW manufacturers have shown they have zero interest in building phones with physical QWERTY keyboards, and TOH provides a way to satisfy users who want one without putting off users who would rather not have the extra bulk - a clever compromise.

If Jolla didn't make their own hardware, it would make TOH very difficult to implement (unless they made it a requirement for Sailfish support... but I'm not sure how well that would go down).

I wouldn't have bought my Jolla if I didn't think I could get a HW keyboard for it, so TOH was a deal maker for me.

It's also one of the main things that makes Jolla obviously different to other phones, something that non-techies who might not appreciate the benefits of native code and Android apps can understand.

Yes, but remember OtherHalf is a solution itself.
It's competing with touchscreen typing, which is fairly good on straightforward iOS. It's even better with predictive typing like that of SwiftKey, and gesture typing of Swype.


I know the majority of people would prefer on-screen typing over physical typing, if the trade-off is between a phone of Jolla's calibre and compared to one like the SGS4 or newer.

In other words, the Jolla phone has aged rapidly. And the software hasn't caught up to the likes of Android, iOS, or even Windows Mobile. I'm not sure what is exactly going on behind the scenes. Perhaps Jolla have built SailfishOS 2.0 where it can compete against Android M for features and against iOS for fit and finish, and they're not telling anyone.

If that's the case, they've solved the software side of things but need a hardware solution (easy) and perhaps services (hard, or license from others).

So who knows, perhaps in the near future Jolla might release a phenomenal hardware with phenomenal software (for average user) without comprehensive services... and I'll buy it in a heartbeat. However, all this silence says otherwise. It's much more probable that progress is happening, albeit at a much slower pace than anticipated, and slower than the market itself (I mean the 2011 iPhone 4S $800 was small, slow, and severly limited and they heralded it as breakthrough... now 2015 we have cheap $99 Elephone G5, $139 Yu Yureka, $199 Alcatel Idol 3. In 4 years, a small time, the industry has excelled quickly).

And for this reason, I say forget about hardware and services. Focus on the software. Once that is finalized, then focus on services and hardware. Or in laymans terms; be a man of specialty and not a jack of all trades.

"sailors" I like that term, I'm going to use it from now on.

IMHO it's too soon to drop TOH entirely, especially since it's been mostly an afterthought/side-project from the beginning.
But I guess it depends on how much new blood, sweat, & tears they've put into it (or haven't), that we don't know about.
If they've invested heaps of time/resources into it since the J1's release, then I can't see them wanting to ditch all of that.
It also depends on similar platforms coming soon*, & if their envisaged improvements result in something more compelling or competitive.
Whatever choice they make, it'll probably be coming from a place that's better informed than any of us can realistically be.

*Ara, PuzzlePhone, few others