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2009-11-05
, 18:00
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Moderator |
Posts: 7,109 |
Thanked: 8,820 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Vancouver, BC, Canada
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#342
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Originally Posted by edgedemon
That Dext / Cliq thing doesn't look nearly as hideous as the Droid. How does it relate to the Droid? I'm now officially confused.
Yet another review from the Inquirer this time...
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/.../motorola-dext
They hate the keyboard
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Please don't send me a private message, post to the appropriate thread.
Thank you all for your donations!
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2009-11-05
, 19:02
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Posts: 607 |
Thanked: 450 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Washington, DC
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#343
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Originally Posted by qole
Basically, it's their lower priced Android phone.
That Dext / Cliq thing doesn't look nearly as hideous as the Droid. How does it relate to the Droid? I'm now officially confused.
Here's a comparison:
http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3...&idPhone1=2934
Last edited by DaveP1; 2009-11-05 at 19:03. Reason: added comparison link
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2009-11-06
, 15:13
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Posts: 30 |
Thanked: 19 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Singapore
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#344
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Here's a LONG EIGHT-PAGE read about a three-way fight between the N900, Droid and HD2.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/20...id-one_all.htm
Enjoy
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/20...id-one_all.htm
Enjoy
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2009-11-08
, 08:52
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Posts: 367 |
Thanked: 176 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#345
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Originally Posted by christexaport
Actually, I would agree with this statement if we'd be talking about anyone but Google. But right now it happens to be Google.
I'll give you a big Amen, mrojas! This is an unworthy comparison on many levels. Hardware is just that, but software dictates how you use it. So the argument isn't about the phones, but the OSes. I wrote this response to a similar question in another thread:
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=351390&postcount=8
Now I know not everyone is as well versed in the intricacies of mobile OSes, but take this info and share it, so we can end all of these worthless comparisons. The N900 is precedent setting in the smartphone space, and that's the biggest thing about all of this.
The Droid is an excellent phone, and will chew holes in the Apple growth machine by itself, as well as put greater exposure on Android OS. This is what no one has been willing to do, expose Apple via marketing, until now. Droid will sell extremely well if priced in the $199 after subsidy price point, and I promise Nokia will be extremely happy. Once the iPhone is in less demand, and Android is already ubiquitous, carriers will look for a competitive alternative. Symbian, Maemo, and WinMo stand to benefit, and should in the next 3 quarters.
Of course it's a good thing that the Iphone's American domination is seeing an end, but who is the big winner here? If the N900 would be released before the Android phones, then the answer would be obvious. But this isn't the case.
Now when Google has gained a lot of potential hype and market share, they'll have to lose the momentum to a competitor (Maemo in this case) in order for the competitor's success. And this hasn't been seen in any other areas of Google's domination. This is the case.
Google Search is still extremely dominant, and other Google products haven't really ever dropped in market share. For sure, some Google services fails, but once they're established they simply have no competition in the end, or at least never reduces their market share.
And that's why a market with both Google (Android) and the Iphone is a much worse situation than the Iphone alone. Well, this was pretty obvious actually, but my point is that there's no one that crushes the competition the way Google does, and that's why companies often avoid to compete with them.
The thing Nokia should do right now is to market privacy, since it's the only area where Google can be defeated for sure. Everything else Nokia has done can easily be either catched up or surpassed by Google, considering their resources and power.
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2009-11-08
, 13:57
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Posts: 670 |
Thanked: 747 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ Kansas City, Missouri, USA
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#346
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Originally Posted by c0rt3x
No, I agree with christexaport that Android's success can only be beneficial to Nokia And Maemo. Google is a dominant monster in certain business areas, but so is Nokia. But both have been overshadowed, or hampered, in the smartphone biz by Apple's iPhone hype machine, to the point that for many people, particularly in the US, smartphone = iPhone, or if they're a little bit knowledgeable maybe a Blackberry.
Of course it's a good thing that the Iphone's American domination is seeing an end, but who is the big winner here? If the N900 would be released before the Android phones, then the answer would be obvious...Now when Google has gained a lot of potential hype and market share, they'll have to lose the momentum to a competitor (Maemo in this case) in order for the competitor's success. And this hasn't been seen in any other areas of Google's domination.
...that's why a market with both Google (Android) and the Iphone is a much worse situation than the Iphone alone.
A major impact by Android phones would change that simple equation to one a little more sophisticated. General public-type buyers will become aware that more choices, maybe better choices than the iPhone or Blackberry, are out there, available, and will start seriously considering them. That increased public awareness and willingness to consider alternatives will open up the market for more than just Android. Nokia and Maemo should certainly benefit also.
As for the timing of the N900 introduction, IMO it's working out just about right, especially for the US market. It'll be out about a month before Christmas so just in time to pick up a few sales there. More important, instead of coming out just before the Droid and then being quickly forgotten in the Droid hype, it will work the other way around. The Droid will be quickly overshadowed in the tech media by the release of the N900/Maemo and it's (mostly) superior feature set and capabilities. Kinda like a celebrity that shows up fashionably late to the party and grabs the attention away from the early arrivals.
If Nokia wants to make a sizable dent in the US smartphone market, it will have to start with the high-end and it will have to be with Maemo. Symbian will not be able to do it. Why not? Because regardless of improvements, updates or the real merits of Symbian, unfortunately the tech media (especially in the US) will regard Symbian as more of the same old same old OS, much like WinMO is regarded now. The introduction of new mid or low-end Nokia/Symbian smartphones will just get lost in the crowd.
But Maemo is the kinda ultra-capable, radically different approach to a mobile OS that can generate enough general media buzz and developer interest to make a real difference in the the public psyche and therefore, the marketplace. Unlike Symbian, or even Android now that it's fairly estabilished, Maemo can position itself as the Next Generation beyond OS-X or Android, as the first mobile OS designed for real pocket computers, not just smartphones.
I also agree with christexaport that hardware is just hardware. It's changing so fast that comparisons are temporary and fairly meaningless. This is really all about the OS and supporting software. It IS the biggest thing in all this. The N900 is very good but not all that different or revolutionary compared to other hardware. Maemo IS compared to other OS. IOW, OS-X, Android and RIM are like 3 of a kind. Maemo is like a full house.
No doubt Nokia is well aware of all I just said as apparently their plans seem geared to take advantage of just this kinda scenario.
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Last edited by Crashdamage; 2009-11-08 at 14:30.
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2009-11-12
, 11:36
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Posts: 13 |
Thanked: 6 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Netherlands
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#347
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In the review below (n900 vs droid vs hd2) the n900 wins with hands down.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/20...droid-five.htm
In the next Droid review below , Eldar Murtazin says that the n900 is considerably slower, less stable and doesn't offer comparable functionality out of the box compared to the Droid.
http://www.mobile-review.com/review/...stone-en.shtml
"Given that my main phone these days is the Nokia N97, plus I've got the HTC Hero as my secondary phone, I was elated to get the mix of these two devices in the Motorola Milestone. Hero's flexibility and interface speed with a keyboard that tops that of the N97. Surprisingly, the Milestone is a decent phone with great build quality and a dazzling display. The thing that will hold it back a little, though, is its price tag - 400-450 Euro without a contract (set to land on most markets in December).
Those who are looking for a QWERTY-enabled device jam-packed with features and a likable, speedy interface, the Milestone is the way to go. In fact, there aren't many phone like that out there - maybe the Nokia N900, but it's considerably slower, less stable and doesn't offer comparable functionality out of the box. In my opinion, the choice is very clear and Nokia is not what's on my mind. "Milestone" is a very fitting name for this phone - it will make an impact on the market and won't go unnoticed. Those who are into expensive and well-crafted things, should definitely put the Motorola Milestone on their short lists".
He likes even the keyboard of the Droid:"On balance, the Milestone's thumbboard is more than adequate - I can hardly remember a single negative thing about it".
Strange , I think that Eldar is the first who likes the keyboard of the Droid.
So now does the Droid win with hands down.
Last edited by janzeeschuimers; 2009-11-12 at 16:31.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/20...droid-five.htm
In the next Droid review below , Eldar Murtazin says that the n900 is considerably slower, less stable and doesn't offer comparable functionality out of the box compared to the Droid.
http://www.mobile-review.com/review/...stone-en.shtml
"Given that my main phone these days is the Nokia N97, plus I've got the HTC Hero as my secondary phone, I was elated to get the mix of these two devices in the Motorola Milestone. Hero's flexibility and interface speed with a keyboard that tops that of the N97. Surprisingly, the Milestone is a decent phone with great build quality and a dazzling display. The thing that will hold it back a little, though, is its price tag - 400-450 Euro without a contract (set to land on most markets in December).
Those who are looking for a QWERTY-enabled device jam-packed with features and a likable, speedy interface, the Milestone is the way to go. In fact, there aren't many phone like that out there - maybe the Nokia N900, but it's considerably slower, less stable and doesn't offer comparable functionality out of the box. In my opinion, the choice is very clear and Nokia is not what's on my mind. "Milestone" is a very fitting name for this phone - it will make an impact on the market and won't go unnoticed. Those who are into expensive and well-crafted things, should definitely put the Motorola Milestone on their short lists".
He likes even the keyboard of the Droid:"On balance, the Milestone's thumbboard is more than adequate - I can hardly remember a single negative thing about it".
Strange , I think that Eldar is the first who likes the keyboard of the Droid.
So now does the Droid win with hands down.
Last edited by janzeeschuimers; 2009-11-12 at 16:31.
| The Following User Says Thank You to janzeeschuimers For This Useful Post: | ||
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2009-11-17
, 21:03
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Posts: 415 |
Thanked: 193 times |
Joined on Jun 2009
@ A place with no mountains
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#348
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I found this interesting:
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1588611
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1588611
Please feel free to chime in. And don't take any of this personally. No personal attacks here. Just let me know what you think:
1) I actually think Im gonna return it and get a blackberry. Its really cool, and does so many things (and does them well) but Im afraid to use any of the cool features because the battery drains so damn quickly that Im afraid Ill be left without a phone. It also charges very slowly (especially through the computer USB - if it charges at all).
1a) The length of time it takes to make a phone call. Going into the contacts list and finding the person seems rather antiquated next to blackberrys "just type the name" concept. I know you can use the google search box, but this requires three taps (of which you always mistap at least twice due to the sensitivity) then the virtual keyboard search, then tap the name. You know what happens next, right? You get a list of everything and inevitably accidentally tap the wrong one and now you find yourself being brought to the Sears web site instead of your friend Sean's contact info.
2) I hate that I get two notifications for each email (one from a gmail app I can't remove and one from the native email app I can't remove).
3) I also hate that you can't easily unlock the screen. Your finger has to go all the way to the top to hit the power button and then do the slide thing (even when a call comes in!!).
4) And getting around seems to be really annoying. I had slacker radio running (which is awesome on the Droid btw) and had to turn it off. Well, first off, there is no off! You just keep opening apps until all the ram is gone and the phone lags. But to at least pause the music, you have to hit the power button, drag finger across to unlock, narrowly tap and drag the notification bar (which is the suggested quicker route no less!), tap on the icon and then pause the song. Seems like a lot of work to pause a song. On my blackberry it was */Green to unlock, then pause.
5) Its a GOOGLE phone, which comes with a native GMAIL app, and doesn't have push gmail?!?!? Blackberry does, but Google doesn't? Seriously? I bought it on the basic assumption that it would, without even a doubt, come with push gmail. Nope.
6) No copy and paste on email and txt. Welcome to 2003.
7) Did I mention the battery dies in about 10 minutes? (OK, Im exaggerating, but it feels like that).
8) The key board isn't terrible, and Im sure I can get used to it better, but man is it a *****. And the virtual one is simply annoying.
9) Web browser is simply awesome! Completely! But I have a netbook and it still has no flash, so how much better is it really then any blackberry browser?
10) Its so sensitive that you can hardly slide the thing without touching one of the buttons. Annoying.
11) Its awesome that the cam is 5 mgpxl. But the quality blows at best, and really, who cares about a camera? Its nice, but a 3 mgpxl will do just fine for me to take pics of freaks on the subway.
12) I have never once felt the phone vibrate. Its been on vibrate all day, and Ive gotten emails, txts and calls. Not once. My BB I'd feel it about 75% of the time.
13) And this Im saving for last because its the least of the issues and would never have even mentioned it but for making a list - Its ugly as sin and weighs like a brick. Far too much weight for the lack of battery life.
14) oh and VZW won't allow tethering for the Droid. Can't figure out why, but actually kinda need to a tether capable phone.
Anyway, going for the Tour since I loved my Bold. Just my two cents.
__________________
Hi! I would like to help make your experience on these forums better. If I can help with anything, just ask!
Useful links for newcomers: New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 Intro, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Choosing open source is an important purchasing decision for your future. The closed source model of computing is a form of exploitation -- of us! Open source empowers us. Be smart -- chose open source.
Hi! I would like to help make your experience on these forums better. If I can help with anything, just ask!
Useful links for newcomers: New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 Intro, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Choosing open source is an important purchasing decision for your future. The closed source model of computing is a form of exploitation -- of us! Open source empowers us. Be smart -- chose open source.
| The Following User Says Thank You to MountainX For This Useful Post: | ||
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2009-11-17
, 22:00
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Posts: 22 |
Thanked: 16 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
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#349
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I'm very excited about Maemo, however I'm not about to jump aboard just yet. I think I'm going to stick with Android till the end of 2010. Let me tell you why.
First of all the Motorola Droid in general has better hardware than the N900, even though the basic platform is the same (same CPU, GPU etc).
1. The Droid has a bigger screen, a higher resolution, a capacitive screen, multitouch in the EU-version, it has a stronger battery, t's got an internal compass, it's got a four row keyboard, and still manages to be thinner and lighter. It includes more software, free turn-by-turn navigation in the US, almost all built-in apps support portraitmode, full flash is upcoming. It's lacking an FM-radio (who needs it when you've got stream anything u like from the web) and a frontcam (although that isnt even properly supported atm in Maemo) - but if you really needed then you can get the Saygus V1 Android Phone which includes both. The Droid also has some very nice accessoires, like a Cardock (which loads up a Homescreen optimized for in-car usage automatically) and a regular dock (which transforms the device automagically in a photostand, nightstand clock etc).
2. The future for Android in 2010 is looking very promising. All this excitment about "the best browsing experience" wont be for long. The Droid (Milestone) has multitouch, bigger screen and higher resolution. So with upcoming Adobe Flash 10 support and the mobile Firefox (Fennec) the Droid will properly be a better Web device than the N900.
3. Everybody keeps saying how easy it is to port apps from "desktop Linux" to Maemo. Well I've read quite a few interesting bits on development for Maemo v Android. Most people agree that writing software from scratch for Android is easier than writing from scratch for Maemo. The Android SDK is available for Win, Linux and Mac. The Maemo SDK is limited to Linux. In general the documentation for Android seems to be extremely good, while Maemo is lagging behind in presenting developers easy and quick guides for programming (lots of examples etc). Through XML it's extremely easy to create a nice UI for an Android app. Maemo seems to be a lot thougher. And all this porting of Linux apps to Maemo: wouldn't proper ports require some serious work in the UI-department? a smaller screen, lower resolution, and touchscreen; so a developer would need to rewrite bits of his UI (such as bigger buttons) for a mobile device. The lack of a portraitmode is a serious showstopper for consumers. Everybody is used to using the phone in portraitmode. The N900 is a smartphone afterall; not a tablet? Yeah, it's upcoming - but so is Android upcoming with full flash, fennec, and even more social integration.
Oh and if development is so easy for Maemo: where's the MMS-app, where's the portraitmodes, where's the Ovi Maps 3, where's the Google Apps?
4. Compare what developers are doing with the Android UI and compare it to Maemo 5 UI. It's like comparing Windows 7 with Windows 3.1. If SE can do it, why can't the Maemo community? Look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLdeQ...layer_embedded (SE X10 / Custom Android)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30kPx...layer_embedded (Maemo 5).
And what's the state of voice recognisation in Maemo 5? Voice Search & Commands seem to work awesomely well in Android. Esp. useful for in-car usage.
5. How free is Maemo? There's actually not a lot to choose from at the moment. You've gotta pick Nokia's N900 if you want Maemo 5. And in the software department there's not a lot to choose from just yet either. So how is this freedom? If I want Android: I can pick from 20+ phones, several carriers, and several phoneset-makers. I can choose to run GoogleNav, Sygic, Destinator, Co-pilot or whatever.If I want a music player, I can choose from 50+ programs. And 100% OSS is not even the goal of Maemo (OpenMoko is btw), but more like 80/20. They do want to keep (just like Google) several propertiery Nokia software out of the Maemo OSS-cloud. And the "concept of free your phone" is not new, Openmoko did it before (with OSS hardware stuff as well btw). And the phone itself is not entirely OSS: so it's not truely a "free phone".
6. How is the security on Maemo? Android tells me exactly which permissions an app needs: it tells me whether the app uses GPS-position, reads my phonebook etc. So I can control what's going on, on my phone and what gets on it. How will I be able to tell if some kind of software in the Maemo-reps won't secretly be accessing all keypresses, or reading my GPS-location info, or my emails stored on the phone? Yh, the app might be opensource, but seriously who's checking it. So, even though freedom sounds great - it comes at serious security risks for average consumers.
So even though I'm very excited about Maemo (the whole concept of it), I'm going to stick with Android for a little longer; and hope to see Maemo 6 very much improved near end 2010!
Last edited by Holyshit; 2009-11-17 at 22:18.
First of all the Motorola Droid in general has better hardware than the N900, even though the basic platform is the same (same CPU, GPU etc).
1. The Droid has a bigger screen, a higher resolution, a capacitive screen, multitouch in the EU-version, it has a stronger battery, t's got an internal compass, it's got a four row keyboard, and still manages to be thinner and lighter. It includes more software, free turn-by-turn navigation in the US, almost all built-in apps support portraitmode, full flash is upcoming. It's lacking an FM-radio (who needs it when you've got stream anything u like from the web) and a frontcam (although that isnt even properly supported atm in Maemo) - but if you really needed then you can get the Saygus V1 Android Phone which includes both. The Droid also has some very nice accessoires, like a Cardock (which loads up a Homescreen optimized for in-car usage automatically) and a regular dock (which transforms the device automagically in a photostand, nightstand clock etc).
2. The future for Android in 2010 is looking very promising. All this excitment about "the best browsing experience" wont be for long. The Droid (Milestone) has multitouch, bigger screen and higher resolution. So with upcoming Adobe Flash 10 support and the mobile Firefox (Fennec) the Droid will properly be a better Web device than the N900.
3. Everybody keeps saying how easy it is to port apps from "desktop Linux" to Maemo. Well I've read quite a few interesting bits on development for Maemo v Android. Most people agree that writing software from scratch for Android is easier than writing from scratch for Maemo. The Android SDK is available for Win, Linux and Mac. The Maemo SDK is limited to Linux. In general the documentation for Android seems to be extremely good, while Maemo is lagging behind in presenting developers easy and quick guides for programming (lots of examples etc). Through XML it's extremely easy to create a nice UI for an Android app. Maemo seems to be a lot thougher. And all this porting of Linux apps to Maemo: wouldn't proper ports require some serious work in the UI-department? a smaller screen, lower resolution, and touchscreen; so a developer would need to rewrite bits of his UI (such as bigger buttons) for a mobile device. The lack of a portraitmode is a serious showstopper for consumers. Everybody is used to using the phone in portraitmode. The N900 is a smartphone afterall; not a tablet? Yeah, it's upcoming - but so is Android upcoming with full flash, fennec, and even more social integration.
Oh and if development is so easy for Maemo: where's the MMS-app, where's the portraitmodes, where's the Ovi Maps 3, where's the Google Apps?
4. Compare what developers are doing with the Android UI and compare it to Maemo 5 UI. It's like comparing Windows 7 with Windows 3.1. If SE can do it, why can't the Maemo community? Look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLdeQ...layer_embedded (SE X10 / Custom Android)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30kPx...layer_embedded (Maemo 5).
And what's the state of voice recognisation in Maemo 5? Voice Search & Commands seem to work awesomely well in Android. Esp. useful for in-car usage.
5. How free is Maemo? There's actually not a lot to choose from at the moment. You've gotta pick Nokia's N900 if you want Maemo 5. And in the software department there's not a lot to choose from just yet either. So how is this freedom? If I want Android: I can pick from 20+ phones, several carriers, and several phoneset-makers. I can choose to run GoogleNav, Sygic, Destinator, Co-pilot or whatever.If I want a music player, I can choose from 50+ programs. And 100% OSS is not even the goal of Maemo (OpenMoko is btw), but more like 80/20. They do want to keep (just like Google) several propertiery Nokia software out of the Maemo OSS-cloud. And the "concept of free your phone" is not new, Openmoko did it before (with OSS hardware stuff as well btw). And the phone itself is not entirely OSS: so it's not truely a "free phone".
6. How is the security on Maemo? Android tells me exactly which permissions an app needs: it tells me whether the app uses GPS-position, reads my phonebook etc. So I can control what's going on, on my phone and what gets on it. How will I be able to tell if some kind of software in the Maemo-reps won't secretly be accessing all keypresses, or reading my GPS-location info, or my emails stored on the phone? Yh, the app might be opensource, but seriously who's checking it. So, even though freedom sounds great - it comes at serious security risks for average consumers.
So even though I'm very excited about Maemo (the whole concept of it), I'm going to stick with Android for a little longer; and hope to see Maemo 6 very much improved near end 2010!
Last edited by Holyshit; 2009-11-17 at 22:18.
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2009-11-17
, 22:05
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Posts: 2,427 |
Thanked: 2,986 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
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#350
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Originally Posted by MountainX
Thanks for the link. The relative civility on that thread is inspiring.
I found this interesting:
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1588611
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N9: Go white or go home
N9: Go white or go home
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| Tags |
| comparison, competition, droid, fight, milestone, motorola droid, motorola milestone, n900, nokia n900 |
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http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/.../motorola-dext
They hate the keyboard