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2011-05-15
, 16:27
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Joined on Feb 2010
@ Gothenburg in Sweden
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#362
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Originally Posted by gerbick
Some of above statements is not correct see my reply.
This is great information; however it (to a pessimist) signals how isolated Harmattan will ultimately be in regards to the MeeGo ecosystem/code base.
That's enough of an difference to render some apps a probably one release (like Skype) or worse... vendors will be forced to split their dev teams and Harmattan will only get niche level support, if that.
Good information to know though.
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2011-05-15
, 16:33
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Joined on Nov 2007
@ Cambridge, UK
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#363
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I'm just trying to inform you of the differences, there's a nice hefty document you can read if you want to see what it takes to be meego compliant.
Like I said, MTF is based on DUI, Harmattan is still using DUI afaik, unless they've completely ditched it for QML, which would be great but Harmattan may still have DUI. Qt Components and MeeGo UX Components are not API compatible (yet). It's MeeGos plan to use MeeGo UX (AKA MeeGo UX Components) across all profiles ultimately. You say it's not ready for handsets, where do you base that opinion from, I've been working with the N900 MeeGo Developer Edition team and MeeGo dialer folk to update the dialer application from MTF to QML (and MeeGo UX Components). We've all been discussing how great it would be to have DE based on MeeGo UX Components, so I'm not sure where your info. is coming from.
Like I said, MTF is based on DUI, Harmattan is still using DUI afaik, unless they've completely ditched it for QML, which would be great but Harmattan may still have DUI. Qt Components and MeeGo UX Components are not API compatible (yet). It's MeeGos plan to use MeeGo UX (AKA MeeGo UX Components) across all profiles ultimately. You say it's not ready for handsets, where do you base that opinion from, I've been working with the N900 MeeGo Developer Edition team and MeeGo dialer folk to update the dialer application from MTF to QML (and MeeGo UX Components). We've all been discussing how great it would be to have DE based on MeeGo UX Components, so I'm not sure where your info. is coming from.
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2011-05-15
, 16:34
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Posts: 724 |
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#364
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Originally Posted by mikecomputing
He was talking about my post I believe ...
Some of above statements is not correct see my reply.
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2011-05-15
, 16:42
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#365
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On I side note, the confusion you (mikec) and others' are having is exactly the reason we were debating Nokias rebranding of Maemo 6 Harmattan to MeeGo/Harmattan, because where it counts, they _are_ dissimilar.
Now, why would you or I want to buy this device, well, from my perspective I want to continue supporting Nokia and they FOSS developments, even if it's being side lined. Also, it's a natural successor to the N900 which means we will have another MeeGo proper target platform with updated hardware. So even if it comes with Harmattan out-of-the-box, it's worth it to me because it'll be a great new platform to port MeeGo to.
And maybe, just maybe, Nokia will update it to a proper Nokia fully MeeGo compliant platform in the future. Otherwise it is a nice stepping stone from Maemo to MeeGo for developers to use.
I imagine now it's confirmed to be called the N950 (though I guess no one is sure yet) this naming rather than the original N9 name is because Nokia think making it sound like the N900 will stop those users that tend to jump on new and shiny to think twice after their experiences with the N900 (step 4/5).
Now, why would you or I want to buy this device, well, from my perspective I want to continue supporting Nokia and they FOSS developments, even if it's being side lined. Also, it's a natural successor to the N900 which means we will have another MeeGo proper target platform with updated hardware. So even if it comes with Harmattan out-of-the-box, it's worth it to me because it'll be a great new platform to port MeeGo to.
And maybe, just maybe, Nokia will update it to a proper Nokia fully MeeGo compliant platform in the future. Otherwise it is a nice stepping stone from Maemo to MeeGo for developers to use.
I imagine now it's confirmed to be called the N950 (though I guess no one is sure yet) this naming rather than the original N9 name is because Nokia think making it sound like the N900 will stop those users that tend to jump on new and shiny to think twice after their experiences with the N900 (step 4/5).
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2011-05-15
, 17:03
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Posts: 3,464 |
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Joined on Feb 2010
@ Gothenburg in Sweden
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#366
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Originally Posted by tswindell
Well if the plan is to use Meego-UX instead of Nokias Qt-components its up to the community but none of them is still "compliant"
I'm just trying to inform you of the differences, there's a nice hefty document you can read if you want to see what it takes to be meego compliant.
Like I said, MTF is based on DUI, Harmattan is still using DUI afaik, unless they've completely ditched it for QML, which would be great but Harmattan may still have DUI. Qt Components and MeeGo UX Components are not API compatible (yet). It's MeeGos plan to use MeeGo UX (AKA MeeGo UX Components) across all profiles ultimately. You say it's not ready for handsets, where do you base that opinion from, I've been working with the N900 MeeGo Developer Edition team and MeeGo dialer folk to update the dialer application from MTF to QML (and MeeGo UX Components). We've all been discussing how great it would be to have DE based on MeeGo UX Components, so I'm not sure where your info. is coming from.
That means its ok today to call Harmattan "Meego Compliant" in that case.
But I still question you about "they still using DUI"? Why would they? Its just plain stupid imho. But if they do the question is if they break compliance by doing so? I dont think so as long as the standard libs are in place (in this case Qt)
You also forget the facts that Meego-UX-components is based on , QT-Componets, But they maybe not API compatible and in a way I agree this is a mistake from both Intel and escpecially Nokia, but also the community that havent fully decided what is best API yet.
To me it just looks like "we shall not use Qt-componets cause Nokia is Evil" and you and other devs has decided to go Meego-UX even on Handset, even if Nokia approach may be better in handset and hopefully compatible in longer run. Facts is non of us known how qt-components integrates on Handset YET cause its new API is not yet released in GIT (wish is BAD ofcourse but still we should give it a try)
And yes I agree Nokia has done stupid decions in the way how they communicates with opensource but again: We should spread fact instead of just rumors :-)
Last edited by mikecomputing; 2011-05-15 at 17:06.
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2011-05-15
, 17:37
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@ Åbo, Finland
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#367
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@mikecomputing Ville Vainio said, and I quote, "Harmattan is not MeeGo compliant at all" so I gather it's just that. not compliant.
I posted the link to the mailinglist stuff in this thread already. Here.
I posted the link to the mailinglist stuff in this thread already. Here.
__________________
Class .. : Meddler, Thread watcher, Developer, Helper
Humor .. : [********--] Alignment: Pacifist
Patience : [*****-----] Weapon(s): N900, N950, Metal music
Agro ... : [----------] Relic(s) : N95, NGage, Tamyia Wild One
Try Tweed Suit for your hardcore twittering needs
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Class .. : Meddler, Thread watcher, Developer, Helper
Humor .. : [********--] Alignment: Pacifist
Patience : [*****-----] Weapon(s): N900, N950, Metal music
Agro ... : [----------] Relic(s) : N95, NGage, Tamyia Wild One
Try Tweed Suit for your hardcore twittering needs
http://twitter.com/mece66
I like my coffee black, like my metal.
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2011-05-15
, 17:47
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@ Gothenburg in Sweden
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#368
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Originally Posted by mece
Hmm okay does this Ville working on Nokia? I mean does he have fully info whats not compliant? Etc..
@mikecomputing Ville Vainio said, and I quote, "Harmattan is not MeeGo compliant at all" so I gather it's just that. not compliant.
I posted the link to the mailinglist stuff in this thread already. Here.
Would be intresting to know this. Hopefully Nokia will clarify whats not on conference.
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2011-05-15
, 17:48
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#369
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Originally Posted by mikecomputing
Urm, what? If the MeeGo project says MeeGo UX (Components) is required to be compliant, then yes, it is required to be compliant. But no, Qt Components and MeeGo UX are not what stops Harmattan being compliant. What stops Harmattan being compliant is the lack of any of the MeeGo APIs (save Qt). Just go back to the incomplete list of differences I documented earlier, those are the middle ware APIs that are important in having compliance.
Well if the plan is to use Meego-UX instead of Nokias Qt-components its up to the community but none of them is still "compliant"
Originally Posted by mikecomputing
No, it's not. I don't think you understand what is happening wrt Harmattan and gaining MeeGo compliance. I'll give you a brief:
That means its ok today to call Harmattan "Meego Compliant" in that case.
Harmattan is not MeeGo compliant, Nokia know this, MeeGo community know this, and you should accept that. Now, Nokia want a waiver from the MeeGo project to (falsely imo) have permission to state that Harmattan is MeeGo compliant, it isn't we all know this but Nokia are arguing that it's acceptible in this case, because they both have compatible Qt APIs which is where most developers will live.
Now, with those points hopefully clarified. Would you say that kubuntu is MeeGo compliant, because it has an up to date Qt. I'd hope not. And Harmattan actually has more in common with kubuntu (upstart, deb, etc.) than MeeGo.
Originally Posted by mikecomputing
Using DUI wouldn't break compliance. Why would Nokia use DUI? Because Harmattan, for the last f'ing four years has had DUI. That was the whole point, Harmattan step 5/5, DUI replacing Hildon.
But I still question you about "they still using DUI"? Why would they? Its just plain stupid imho. But if they do the question is if they break compliance by doing so? I dont think so as long as the standard libs are in place (in this case Qt)
Originally Posted by mikecomputing
Especially Nokia? Are you ******ed? Qt Components is being developed in the open, it was MeeGo UX that was behind closed doors, both are open now.
You also forget the facts that Meego-UX-components is based on , QT-Componets, But they maybe not API compatible and in a way I agree this is a mistake from both Intel and escpecially Nokia, but also the community that havent fully decided what is best API yet.
Originally Posted by mikecomputing
Don't put words in peoples' mouths, what dev has said Nokia are evil? What dev has said that is the reason we're not using Qt Components? MeeGo UX Components is the future for MeeGo appment. MeeGo UX Components will align with and hopefully merge with Qt Components.
To me it just looks like "we shall not use Qt-componets cause Nokia is Evil" and you and other devs has decided to go Meego-UX even on Handset, even if Nokia approach may be better in handset and hopefully compatible in longer run. Facts is non of us known how qt-components integrates on Handset YET cause its new API is not yet released in GIT (wish is BAD ofcourse but still we should give it a try)
Replying to your crap on an N900 is very time consuming so excuse me if I'm being a bit blunt.
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2011-05-15
, 17:51
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#370
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Originally Posted by mikecomputing
Why? Why is this so important to you? and if it is so important why don't you read the bloody compliance doc instead of gesticulating your own guesses and opinions (which have mostly been rubbish) ...
Hmm okay does this Ville working on Nokia? I mean does he have fully info whats not compliant? Etc..
Would be intresting to know this. Hopefully Nokia will clarify whats not on conference.
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But many of you dont say what is NOT compliant and make it look like Harmattan is something really bad cause it come from a company that want to "hurt the linux community" now when they decided to go WP7.
And the community seems to be not positive to include ANYTHING coming from Nokia now to Meego.
Even if they will opensource qt-components for handsets it will perhaps not be included in Meego 1.3. Cause "Nokia bad bvad evil company working with evil Microsoft".
And ofcourse Intel doing exaclty the same (both with Google and Microsoft) but thats not something anyone will discuss. Its only Nokia who is evil company. "We should not include anything coming from them!"
So sick of that way of thinking!
And people here think LG will come with some cool Meego handset on the conference!? Oh cmon! I am sure N900de is better than that LG prototypes used. AFAIK LG mainOS is still other OS:es not Meego.
Use your brains for ones sake! This is bussines. Every damn company wants profit in first place that also includes the "good Intel".
If Meego shall succes the community must accept closed blobs and some stuff comming from evil Nokia too.
Last edited by mikecomputing; 2011-05-15 at 16:37.