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rcolistete	2015-01-31 , 17:22
Posts: 1,269 \| Thanked: 3,961 times \| Joined on May 2011 @ Brazil	#361

Originally Posted by benny1967

... and you may want to count again. In said 'poll', the results were:

btrfs: 264
ExFAT from store: 199
f2fs: 123
ExFAT default: 113
Ext2/3/4: 89
XFS: 72
UDF: 58
FAT/FAT32: 18

Which makes:

ExFAT total: 312
btrfs: 264
f2fs: 123
Ext2/3/4: 89
XFS: 72
UDF: 58
FAT/FAZ32: 18

(Interesting, btw, that Jolla now goes for the solution that gathered roughly 10% of the total votes and this is sold to us as "listening to the community".)

10% of the votes ?!?!? You are again twisting the numbers :
- the majority voted for btrfs, ext4, etc, anything but exFAT;
- exFAT as optional (paid support from Jolla Store) is totally different from exFAT builtin (default).

What the community can do is ask Jolla to have exFAT as optional paid package (from Jolla Store). We don't know if it is possible at all.

Originally Posted by benny1967

The question in the poll wasn't about having or not having ExFAT.

So why many answers in the poll (to be voted) explicitely stated no-exFAT licensing ? And they were the most voted. Jolla stated they would listen to the community via the pool.

__________________
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Sailfish : Sony Xperia X, Gemini, Jolla, Jolla C, Jolla Tablet, Nexus 4. Nokia N9, N900, N810.

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	benny1967	2015-01-31 , 17:32
	Posts: 3,790 \| Thanked: 5,718 times \| Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria	#362

Originally Posted by rcolistete

10% of the votes ?!?!? You are again twisting the numbers

89 out of 936. You can do the maths. It's not exactly 10%, but it's pretty close.

:

Originally Posted by rcolistete

exFAT as optional (paid support from Jolla Store) is totally different from exFAT builtin (default).

No, it isn't. In both cases, Jolla offers the user experience for SDXC cards, distributes and supports it. Making it optional via the store is just makes life easier for those you'd uninstall it otherwise. Just like I don't use Exchange support for ideological reasons and don't have it installed. I still consider it part of the Jolla phone.

Originally Posted by rcolistete

So why many answers in the poll (to be voted) explicitely stated no-exFAT licensing?

Because there was a shitstorm going on at that time and people's writing skills very often are better than their reading skills. Also, you mustn't forget that before this poll on TJC, there was a more serious poll on Indiegogo. People there voted with their wallets. (I'm sure you did, too, because you have such strong opinions about not being able to use SDXC-cards in you future tablet.)

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rcolistete	2015-01-31 , 17:47
Posts: 1,269 \| Thanked: 3,961 times \| Joined on May 2011 @ Brazil	#363

First of all, you are not counting the votes for the answers in the pool, but also from some comments below the answers.

Originally Posted by benny1967

89 out of 936. You can do the maths. It's not exactly 10%, but it's pretty close.

89 "votes" for ext3/4 <> votes for no-exFAT (as default).

Originally Posted by benny1967

No, it isn't. In both cases, Jolla offers the user experience for SDXC cards, distributes and supports it. Making it optional via the store is just makes life easier for those you'd uninstall it otherwise. Just like I don't use Exchange support for ideological reasons and don't have it installed. I still consider it part of the Jolla phone.

Votes for optional paid exFAT (if possible) = no default exFAT (see the 1st answer). So Jolla has chosen no default exFAT. We don't know if it is possible to have optional paid exFAT package in Jolla Store (due to Micro$oft licensing requirements, not made public).

Originally Posted by benny1967

Because there was a shitstorm going on at that time and people's writing skills very often are better than their reading skills. Also, you mustn't forget that before this poll on TJC, there was a more serious poll on Indiegogo. People there voted with their wallets. (I'm sure you did, too, because you have such strong opinions about not being able to use SDXC-cards in you future tablet.)

Telling other comments "shitstorm" will not solve any problem.

There was no poll in Indiegogo where you could separate people wanting exFAT support or not when they buy Jolla Tablet.

I supported exFAT on Jolla Tablet in 03/12/2014, but I was not aware that it could cost much money (US$300k or some volume price which has unknow cost per tablet). Now I would support exFAT only if it could be very cheap, but I have no info about that to decide.

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nodevel	2015-01-31 , 17:48
Posts: 752 \| Thanked: 2,808 times \| Joined on Jan 2011 @ Czech Republic	#364

Originally Posted by rcolistete

So, you've voted for an answer explicitely stating :

So Jolla listened to your (and other) votes which selected to have no exFat licencing (as default), being a majority among TJC votes.

By the way, i see in my TJC account that I've voted in 03/12/2014 for the 3rd answer, asking SDXC support in Jolla Tablet, i.e., "Support 128GB SDXC cards out of the box and pay the license fee". My wish was the minority one, but I'm ok with this outcome as the majority of Sailfish community thinks differently.

So be careful reading and voting in TJC. I've voted for exFAT support as default, you've voted for no-exFAT as default. Now you are complaining about no-exFAT support, while I'm not. That's funny, no ?

Every time you talk about this TJC question, you are forgetting one crucial thing. The question wasn't about exFAT - that was already decided by Jolla and nothing to vote about. The question was about supporting open formats.

The only way that would justify what you are advocating would be:
We are announcing a possibility to have SD card support >32GB, but you can vote for it on TJC until xx.xx. 2014 . Until the voting is over, we are terminating all pre-orders. Once the question is decided, we will update the Indiegogo campaign with the appropriate information and resume pre-orders.

It is not about me or you voting. First, ~140 votes is a joke - thousands have voted since with their wallet. But even if those thousands-1 voted against exFAT, the 1 buyer who did not vote for it would have to be contacted and refunded.

And why did I vote for the answer? Because I would appreciate btrfs support. exFAT was never the question, it was already decided. If it was a question, then I would vote for this answer again, because I prefer optional paid support (which would have to be refunded by Jolla to those who have bought the tablet expecting the support to be in place) to buying an exFAT license for every device. I don't use Windows and even if I did, I would be able to compile the exFAT driver for Jolla myself or install ext3 drivers on Windows.

Me, you and TJC voting are absolutely irrelevant in this issue. The majority not reading TMO/TJC (and not giving a damn about filesystems) will be quite disappointed when their cards won't work as promised. And I'm not even talking about reviews.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by rcolistete

So be careful reading and voting in TJC. I've voted for exFAT support as default, you've voted for no-exFAT as default. Now you are complaining about no-exFAT support, while I'm not. That's funny, no ?

Default is the word you seem to overlook

Last edited by nodevel; 2015-01-31 at 17:55.

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	Copernicus	2015-01-31 , 18:00
	Posts: 1,986 \| Thanked: 7,698 times \| Joined on Dec 2010 @ Dayton, Ohio	#365

Originally Posted by nodevel

The majority not reading TMO/TJC (and not giving a damn about filesystems) will be quite disappointed when their cards won't work as promised.

But that's the thing -- all SDXC cards will work in the tablet. In fact, they will work exactly as promised: if you insert them into the Jolla tablet, you will be able to use them for additional storage space.

It is a fine point, I know, but so far as I can tell Jolla has never explicitly promised interoperability between Jolla-formatted media cards and SDXC-compliant devices.

(And just how disappointed can the upcoming tablet owners be anyway? The tablet is still months away from production, and is still undergoing design changes, as the recent comments by Jolla show. Ultimately, there's no guarantee that the hardware that finally appears, if it appears at all, will bear any resemblance to the prototype displayed during the Indiegogo campaign...)

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	benny1967	2015-01-31 , 18:03
	Posts: 3,790 \| Thanked: 5,718 times \| Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria	#366

Originally Posted by rcolistete

First of all, you are not counting the votes for the answers in the pool, but also from some comments below the answers.

No, I counted only the votes for the answers (+1 for each answer itself). What I didn't count were answers that didn't express a preference for a particular fisle system or FS related trechnology (the latter was the actual purpose of the poll), but just... esoterics.

Originally Posted by rcolistete

89 "votes" for ext3/4 <> votes for no-exFAT (as default).

Is there any meaning in this sentence?

Originally Posted by rcolistete

There was no poll in Indiegogo where you could separate people wanting exFAT support or not when they buy Jolla Tablet.

... and here we go again. Talking about people whose writing skills are better than their reading skills...

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nodevel	2015-01-31 , 18:06
Posts: 752 \| Thanked: 2,808 times \| Joined on Jan 2011 @ Czech Republic	#367

Originally Posted by rcolistete

89 "votes" for ext3/4 <> votes for no-exFAT (as default).

That's nonsense.

I would love to be able to format the card to ext3/4 easily from Jolla (GUI). I would vote for that answer (I most likely did anyway)!

The question wasn't about exFAT in the first place, so supporting open filesystems (ext3/4 as you're mentioning) has no consequence for exFAT whatsoever.

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	benny1967	2015-01-31 , 18:07
	Posts: 3,790 \| Thanked: 5,718 times \| Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria	#368

Originally Posted by Copernicus

It is a fine point, I know, but so far as I can tell Jolla has never explicitly promised interoperability between Jolla-formatted media cards and SDXC-compliant devices.

Jolla maybe didn't (I don't know and don't care any more), but the SD Association does. That's why it exists, to ensure interoperability. To make sure that if you take your SD-care out of your Jolla and into your TV, it'll still work as expected. It's like saying "Well, yes, the Jolla phone has an USB port, but have they ever explicitly promised interoperability between the Jolla phone and any another device that has USB?"

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rcolistete	2015-01-31 , 18:28
Posts: 1,269 \| Thanked: 3,961 times \| Joined on May 2011 @ Brazil	#369

Originally Posted by nodevel

Every time you talk about this TJC question, you are forgetting one crucial thing. The question wasn't about exFAT - that was already decided by Jolla and nothing to vote about. The question was about supporting open formats.

I have all Jolla Tablet announcements, no one cites exFAT. They cite microSD with 128GB support. A different thing.

Originally Posted by nodevel

The only way that would justify what you are advocating would be:
We are announcing a possibility to have SD card support >32GB, but you can vote for it on TJC until xx.xx. 2014 . Until the voting is over, we are terminating all pre-orders. Once the question is decided, we will update the Indiegogo campaign with the appropriate information and resume pre-orders.

No need to freeze the campaign just to decide about a stretch goal.

You forget the Indiegogo campaign terms, as it was already cited here before :

As in any crowdfunding campaign or product development, changes are possible. We reserve the right to make changes in described features, specifications, and delivery date estimations and to introduce software features and functionality at a later date.

As I've said : if somebody wants a tablet with frozen specs, just buy one that already is available in the market. Any Indiegogo campaign is not about frozen specs and risk-free products.

Originally Posted by nodevel

It is not about me or you voting. First, ~140 votes is a joke - thousands have voted since with their wallet. But even if those thousands-1 voted against exFAT, the 1 buyer who did not vote for it would have to be contacted and refunded.

More than 302 votes for no-exFAT as default, just 58 votes for exFAT default support in Jolla Tablet. Consider that Jolla sold about 7,200 tablets in Indiegogo campaign (until December), so 4,2% of active users is a lot greater than 0,8%.

Nobody selected a perk including exFAT/microSDXC support. No need to refund anybody. There was a stretch goal to have microSD > 32GB. With no exFAT or microSDXC words cited at all.

Originally Posted by nodevel

And why did I vote for the answer? Because I would appreciate btrfs support. exFAT was never the question, it was already decided.

The answer you have voted was excluding exFAT licensing as default. It is clearly written :

Support SDHC (up to 32GB, no exFAT licensing)

exFAT was not decided at all, read TJC topic cited by the pool (where exFAT = proprietary file system) :

We understand that many of you would not want to support a proprietary file system for good reasons. So here's a suggestion especially for you:
We have put up a specific poll here on TJC about better supporting open source file systems on microSD cards in Sailfish OS.
This is mainly for taking in suggestions from you on what we should practically do here.

Originally Posted by nodevel

If it was a question, then I would vote for this answer again, because I prefer optional paid support (which would have to be refunded by Jolla to those who have bought the tablet expecting the support to be in place) to buying an exFAT license for every device.

You've voted for :

If possible, paid-for exFAT license package to support SDXC

See, "If possible". We don't know if it is or not.

As I've already said, Jolla hasn't cited exFAT or microSDXC support in the stretch goal. And any Indiegogo can have specs, delivery date, etc, changed. So no right to be refunded at all.

Originally Posted by nodevel

Me, you and TJC voting are absolutely irrelevant in this issue.

No, we are not irrevelant at all. Since Maemo 4 days, then Maemo 5, MeeGo Harmattan and now Sailfish OS, I see the community (here, in TJC, blogs, sites, etc) opinion makes indeed a difference, with many suggestions being adopted (by Nokia, Jolla, OTH builders, etc).

Originally Posted by nodevel

The majority not reading TMO/TJC (and not giving a damn about filesystems) will be quite disappointed when their cards won't work as promised. And I'm not even talking about reviews.

All the Jolla Tablet perkers receive the emails about news, so they can be aware of any changes, vote for features, etc.

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	Copernicus	2015-01-31 , 18:31
	Posts: 1,986 \| Thanked: 7,698 times \| Joined on Dec 2010 @ Dayton, Ohio	#370

Originally Posted by benny1967

It's like saying "Well, yes, the Jolla phone has an USB port, but have they ever explicitly promised interoperability between the Jolla phone and any another device that has USB?"

The USB standard is for a cable that connects two devices. As such, the value of USB is entirely dependent on both devices being able to communicate with each other.

The SD card standard is for a media card that can reside in only one device at a time. These media cards can be of value even if you never move them between different devices; in fact, of the people in my life who use media cards, only one ever bothers to transfer their cards between devices (including myself!); the rest of us just plug our device into our computer via USB, and access the memory card that way. The one person who does swap cards between devices does need them to follow the same standard; however the standard he's dependent on is the Sony Memory Stick...

Honestly, I just don't see normal non-geek folks worrying about the SDXC standard. I think it's only power-users who crave compatibility between their multiple high-end consumer devices who really care...