Originally Posted by pichlo

Speculations are born from the lack of information, not the presence of it.

Originally Posted by szopin

They released information about problems with display, see where that went. If they kept shut and just working we wouldn't have a flurry of: based on that one bit of information, let me give you my speculations/wild guesses why the company is being mismanaged/misPRed/backers misled

edit2: who am I kidding, they already are going for: 'based on no information', whatever, it'll get twisted anyway

edit: would love more info, but lets not kid ourselves, every bit they release is being repurposed by a few repeating names here to fit their narrative of failure

Originally Posted by ZogG

Actually they informed of delay and the problem and it was welcomed by people and there was a lot of understanding. but again telling you that there is problem and then not providing a single information for 2 months is a lack of information.

As after people understood the problem and waited for those 2 months delay and it getting close to to new release date, but still there is no conformation if the problem was resolved and if they are on track. i would as well mention that there are holidays in Finland soon and there was no statement if they'll deliver even during holidays or we need to wait them to over.

And if you pay attention there are huge amount of people who wonder, and maybe you think it's not important for you, it might be important for them and as they were part of crowdfunding, they actually deserve to get answers.

Let's see how any funding works. Where there are once in X time report where companies that fund want to know if there any other problems and how it's going. Being a part of project and putting your money in trust means you have to get some feedback and output back, it's not a donation. The only difference, that in most cases it's legal entities or huge companies who fund and they are the one who make the decision, as they have power. in our case it's crowd and as it's online crowd, as separate people they have less power, which let the company funded to ignore them and mostly do it as they want(not black and white picture here btw). So basically just imagine how it would be if it would not be people who funded and how company would report them, it would be different. And if we as a crowd couldn't do anything about it, it doesn't mean that Jolla can use this weakness for own PR or other decisions why they decide to go silent. If we as crowd are not in power over them as any other company or board who could fund them - doesn't mean they do not have same responsibilities for us.

Originally Posted by szopin

Is this a straight faced post? Here some quotes how people fantasise, whether they have info or not:

- panic, disarray and poor management
- poor focus, leadership and a development process that's probably still full of holes
- leaving basic problems for months or years without even attempting (very simple) fixes suggests very poor discipline on some level. (szopin: yes, 'years', because jolla phone has been out for aeons apparently, haters from the future)

The results have always been the same, except with jolla releasing more info there is more to cherry-pick and misrepresent for the builders of narrative

Originally Posted by ZogG

Again you see it as black and white. there are always be people who would be negative, but doesn't mean that people who are negative now have no reasons.
Let's take your logic to SW and say. Why opensource enaythin, let;s close source everything, anyway people will complain:
- Not all patches accepted
- Not my favorite libs are used
- Bad documentation

So basically if we follow your logic, let's closed source everything on Jolla that is possible

Now if you think there is enough info, tell me if tablet will be released before holidays and if holidays will influence delivery at all (it's matter of about a month and it's not matter of "will be more ready after this delay" as this is just a holiday). Tell me if the screen issue is resolved already or not. Because there is huge difference if there are other problems thus still no info and still delay or if there is still problem with display. As 2 months to solve display problem is a long time which would mean if it's not resolved during 2 months it can be still problem after half a year.

Originally Posted by szopin

How about you prepare an exhaustive list of points you want addressed, because if you maybe remember 6-12 months ago when Jolla was more talkative with the public there were all the time people who were constantly dissatisfied. They release info = not enough! They stop releasing info = can you guys at least go back to previous state? Bad PR!
Maybe bring this as a topic for community meetings? There you will have jolla representatives on IRC at hand and wearing the proper hats maybe too, somehow noone proposed any topics for the last X (don't even know how many) meetings

Originally Posted by ZogG

i just want to remind that those meeting were born in as the result of the lack of communication problem. As well as jolla itself told several times through official channels that they had problems in communication and will try to improve it. So i'm not sure about what "more talkative" you are talking about.

Originally Posted by MartinK

My personal experience is quite the opposite - for example RHEL is heavily used in the financial sector, to run stock exchanges and by many other big enterprise companies. And it's all open source.

Originally Posted by jalyst

That's not what happened, I recall the exchange you had with szopin (IIIRC?), he didn't claim it was coming then, you suggested that's what the official company line was & he clarified what it really was (IIRC you refused to agree despite the interview with a co. rep. -not a gov't official- that he referenced); i.e. there's plans for a time-line, but no plans to release/announce it yet, but they hope to "soon". That's my vague recollection, I'll leave szopin/you to dig-up the actual exchange for the full detail. Yes their statement is -once again- vague as hell, but it's a confirmation at least that there's plans afoot for more opening, something they'd not said anything about for a very long time..