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2007-10-14
, 12:40
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Posts: 87 |
Thanked: 45 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
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#372
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Originally Posted by Rebski
I just can't see this happening. They say the iPhone has an advanced webbrowser and that you don't need a bigger screen. It's fine the way it is. Marketingwise it would be a huge mistake to first tell people the iPhone is good enough for webbrowsing and then release an Internettablet.
What if Apple were to bring out an iPod Internet Tablet (iNewton or whatever) where would that leave us I wonder?
My guess is that Texrat would be here replying to his own posts.
If Texrat’s analogy with the early days of PC’s is correct that it will be just a matter of time before Apple joins the fray. And the only reason we are have this particular thread is because Apple has set an overwhelmingly desirable standard. Just imagine an iTablet that is Open Source.
The next 6 months will see big changes and Nokia will have to shape up in the face of considerable competition from MID’s. Let’s see how it fares. Certainly having the field all to itself is not conducive to bringing out the best it can do.
Then Apple and OpenSource? Did you see what they did to the iPhone? I just don't think so...
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2007-10-14
, 13:18
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Posts: 3,401 |
Thanked: 1,255 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
@ London, UK
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#373
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Originally Posted by Rebski
Apple iPhone announcement coming soon? Offline support for third-party web-apps?
Just imagine an iTablet that is Open Source.
We’re not sure if the announcement is going to be the rumored offline storage support for third-party web-apps or a full-fledged Apple-sanctioned iPhone Software Development Kit (SDK). Either would be good news for third-party apps on the iPhone, but a legit iPhone SDK would allow for more powerful software to be developed for the iPhone - no web-app programming limitations means more flexibility and power.
A fully fledged SDK on the iPhone (open or closed, it makes no difference in the long run) would grab a lot of developer attention, both community and commercial, simply based on the number of units sold if nothing else. Heck, I'm already impressed by the level of developer activity on the iPhone despite the complete lack of developer support from Apple, imagine what would happen if an SDK appeared.
We all bang the open source drum, yet people develop for Apple Macs because there is a growing market, and they'll do the same for iPhone/Touch devices. It's about getting applications out there, in use and perhaps making some money too. Open source is great, but nobody will freely develop for an open source device that has a global market penetration which is a tiny fraction of the iPhone or Touch.
The development ecosystem of the Nokia Internet Tablets needs to grow significantly, and this will only be achieved by appealing to more and varied buyers in the first place. Perhaps Intel MIDs will help Nokia here as they share a common base.
Last edited by Milhouse; 2007-10-14 at 13:26.
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2007-10-14
, 14:44
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Posts: 87 |
Thanked: 45 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
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#374
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Originally Posted by Milhouse
There are people developing freely for Openmoko. And there are/will be people developing for Maemo and for Ubuntu Mobile without payment just for fun.
We all bang the open source drum, yet people develop for Apple Macs because there is a growing market, and they'll do the same for iPhone/Touch devices. It's about getting applications out there, in use and perhaps making some money too. Open source is great, but nobody will freely develop for an open source device that has a global market penetration which is a tiny fraction of the iPhone or Touch.
Originally Posted by Milhouse
I agree. Intels MIDs will bring more developers and hopefully some new outstanding applications. Today we have applications for almost anything for the N800. But these apps are often old versions or lack features to equal software.
The development ecosystem of the Nokia Internet Tablets needs to grow significantly, and this will only be achieved by appealing to more and varied buyers in the first place. Perhaps Intel MIDs will help Nokia here as they share a common base.
And I don't think 3rd party offline webapps will be the stuff most people want on there iPhones. There are some kind of apps that can be done in ajax. But for some other sort of apps ajax isn't good enough.
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2007-10-14
, 16:48
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Posts: 4,384 |
Thanked: 5,524 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
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#375
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I don't completely agree with the Windows vs Mac (Actually it's either MS vs Apple or Windows vs MacOS) argument.
I think the single major reason that people are still picking up Windows nowadays is because people have to conform to past dependency that has been instilled by Microsoft into our... world (really). Most people need windows to fully (100%) interoperate with their peers and counterparts (read: business partners, friends, clients, suppliers, developers, etc) due to the massive market dominance of MS in the past. People don't buy Windows because it has crappier interface than Apple.
Linux and The Nokia IT certainly doesn't have the market dominance that MS has. In fact it's pretty close in the opposite end of the situation being a minority in terms of file applications and data files compatibility and user interface familiarty.
Btw if you don't understand the above comment about 'needing MS compatibility', consider yourself lucky. Go to any real business with more than 100 computers and ask to talk to their admin. Ask him whether he has migrated them to Linux or not. Why not. If they have, ask him whether he is happy with the move, what kind of problems are they facing now.
For most of the world that is under MS' "handcuffs", the promise of 'real standards' and 'open sourced projects' is a godsend. Heavenly design. We all wish this thing really comes through, that opensource products (hardware, software, standard, whatever) can compete and beat their closed-sourced counterparts. (Please note that I'm not talking about free vs commercial).
The worst thing that could happen in the opensource world is if the people get closed-minded. What an irony indeed. If there is something good from closed-sourced products that half of the world is raving about, please for whatever's-holy-sake, don't get self-righteous and shoot it down just because it's not opensource\linux.
LEARN FROM IT. COPY WHAT'S GOOD FROM IT & REIMPLEMENT IT YOUR WAY.
I think the single major reason that people are still picking up Windows nowadays is because people have to conform to past dependency that has been instilled by Microsoft into our... world (really). Most people need windows to fully (100%) interoperate with their peers and counterparts (read: business partners, friends, clients, suppliers, developers, etc) due to the massive market dominance of MS in the past. People don't buy Windows because it has crappier interface than Apple.
Linux and The Nokia IT certainly doesn't have the market dominance that MS has. In fact it's pretty close in the opposite end of the situation being a minority in terms of file applications and data files compatibility and user interface familiarty.
Btw if you don't understand the above comment about 'needing MS compatibility', consider yourself lucky. Go to any real business with more than 100 computers and ask to talk to their admin. Ask him whether he has migrated them to Linux or not. Why not. If they have, ask him whether he is happy with the move, what kind of problems are they facing now.
For most of the world that is under MS' "handcuffs", the promise of 'real standards' and 'open sourced projects' is a godsend. Heavenly design. We all wish this thing really comes through, that opensource products (hardware, software, standard, whatever) can compete and beat their closed-sourced counterparts. (Please note that I'm not talking about free vs commercial).
The worst thing that could happen in the opensource world is if the people get closed-minded. What an irony indeed. If there is something good from closed-sourced products that half of the world is raving about, please for whatever's-holy-sake, don't get self-righteous and shoot it down just because it's not opensource\linux.
LEARN FROM IT. COPY WHAT'S GOOD FROM IT & REIMPLEMENT IT YOUR WAY.
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2007-10-14
, 16:54
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Posts: 4,384 |
Thanked: 5,524 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
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#376
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Originally Posted by Noneus
I'm very wary of 100% community developed projects without financial incentives. A lot of them don't have the consistency and continuity that 'serious users' (including businesses) need. Even on a platform that is committed to 100% fun, the Gamepark gp2x opensource linux based gaming device, the apps are very inconsistent in their stabitliy, features and performance.
There are people developing freely for Openmoko. And there are/will be people developing for Maemo and for Ubuntu Mobile without payment just for fun.
I don't mind the developers of the programs that I use have fun while they do their job. But I hope they have more things going for it than just fun, I also don't mind rewarding them with cash payment or subscription if I also benefit or profit from using their work.
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2007-10-14
, 17:20
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#377
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Originally Posted by Noneus
No, I meant Mac vs PC+Windows because that is the status quo.
Oh and in saying Mac vs PC you mean Mac vs Windows right? (I'm a Linux-only user.) There is some great stuff happening in KDE4. And there are nice looking PCs/laptops too. Sony makes some sweet laptops.
I'm all for Linux increasing its presence and influence on the desktop, but that was outside the scope of my analogy.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2007-10-14
, 17:32
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#378
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Originally Posted by ysss
There was a time when Windows was a HUGE joke. Ever use Windows 1.0? 2.0?
I don't completely agree with the Windows vs Mac (Actually it's either MS vs Apple or Windows vs MacOS) argument.
I think the single major reason that people are still picking up Windows nowadays is because people have to conform to past dependency that has been instilled by Microsoft into our... world (really).
Somehow Microsoft overcame tremendous inertia and its once-useless operating environment (it didn't start as an actual OS) is now the status quo.
The original PC had a lot to overcome too, especially given that IBM's CEO at the time didn't even believe the product had a future. In the 1980s there were plenty of competitors to the PC and many of them viable.
Somehow those facts get lost in these arguments. One of my points is that the Internet Tablet family has the same opportunity and potential as the PC with Windows. The other is the sober reality that despite its allure, despite the hype, the Mac holds a small percentage of the computing market. The iPhone holds a small percentage of the phone market (less than 1%, compared to Nokia's over 35% globally). If Apple's Mac can't overcome the PC+Windows status quo with its supposed superiority, then how is the iPhone to demolish Nokia as some here claim? Apple doesn't exactly have the product depth to take on Nokia or Samsung or LG or any other major phone producer. And if people actually think those companies will sit idly by and LET Apple get to that point without a fight, then they really don't understand this business enough to comment on it.
I do agree with the remainder of your post though.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2007-10-14
, 17:43
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Posts: 87 |
Thanked: 45 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
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#379
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Actually I think Microsoft was pretty clever with Windows (by accident?). They did almost nothing against piracy for years. People copy their OS and use it. Now that everyone is used to it they put this DRM and WGA stuff in Windows and people have to pay.
For me the main problem with Linux is hardware support. Many people try a LiveCD. They see: "Ah my sound doesn't work. I better stick to Windows." If this would be the other way around... My father is just using Linux because I fixed issues like not working sound with recompiling libs, drivers and so on.
About code quality in opensource apps. Of course there are projects where the code is pretty much unreadable at first. But a lot of projects keep a good code quality since there are more than one person involved. So you need to keep a certain code quality so that the other developers can actually read what you write.
The problem for community projects is the lack of testhardware and time to test.
That's how I see it.
For me the main problem with Linux is hardware support. Many people try a LiveCD. They see: "Ah my sound doesn't work. I better stick to Windows." If this would be the other way around... My father is just using Linux because I fixed issues like not working sound with recompiling libs, drivers and so on.
About code quality in opensource apps. Of course there are projects where the code is pretty much unreadable at first. But a lot of projects keep a good code quality since there are more than one person involved. So you need to keep a certain code quality so that the other developers can actually read what you write.
The problem for community projects is the lack of testhardware and time to test.
That's how I see it.
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2007-10-14
, 18:47
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Posts: 481 |
Thanked: 65 times |
Joined on Aug 2007
@ Westcountry, UK
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#380
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Originally Posted by Noneus
So why so many album covers repeated?
I attached an image of how ukmp looks on my N800. Of course kinetic scrolling if you have more albums than the screen is big.
I think I will stick to the coverflow mode - I like it. And of course it plays music without crashing or me having to reset it (which UKMP does on mine every time).
Originally Posted by Noneus
I am not bothered about kinetic everything - that is a 'nice to have' when you have sorted everything else. It is stupid careless things that annoy me. How come when you have a list that scrolls, when you can't scroll anymore you get a disabled arrow taking a whole row? Surely the fact that there isn't an arrow means you can't scroll anymore? That wastes a whole row. OK, no biggie, but lots of no biggies together make a general annoyance.
About the widgets and stuff. Sometimes kinetic scrolling would be nice (RSS and webbrowser) I hope Nokia does this soon. I'm not 100% satisfied with the UI. But i'm ok with it. The only major showstopper is a missing organizer by Nokia. But they are developing something.
My guess is that Texrat would be here replying to his own posts.
If Texrat’s analogy with the early days of PC’s is correct that it will be just a matter of time before Apple joins the fray. And the only reason we are have this particular thread is because Apple has set an overwhelmingly desirable standard. Just imagine an iTablet that is Open Source.
The next 6 months will see big changes and Nokia will have to shape up in the face of considerable competition from MID’s. Let’s see how it fares. Certainly having the field all to itself is not conducive to bringing out the best it can do.