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Poll: Did you order a Jolla tablet?
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Did you order a Jolla tablet?

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gerbick
2016-01-18 , 18:08
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#3861
Originally Posted by mscion View Post
Well, it's only Monday. Material for a countdown thread? Gee, at one time this was a count up thread. Was so looking forward to the tablet. Seems like what could go wrong did go wrong. Hope I'm wrong!
Let's hope so. I've been in the Mer-Meeting all day and only two blips so far in regards to folks talking. So nothing new today.
 
att is offline att
2016-01-18 , 19:02
Posts: 388 | Thanked: 1,340 times | Joined on Nov 2007 @ Finland
#3862
People are so impatient nowadays. Everything and NOW. And never heard of "release early, release often"
 
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Dave999 is offline Dave999
2016-01-18 , 19:04
Posts: 7,075 | Thanked: 9,073 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
#3863
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
Let's hope so. I've been in the Mer-Meeting all day and only two blips so far in regards to folks talking. So nothing new today.
Good, that you are spying at the Mer-meetings and report back, I pushing F5 on the jolla blog once every minute and if there is an update I get a mail. so we have these two bases covered. Someone must cover jolla's twitter account 247 and report back if anything unusual happens over there and it would help if someone could pacing (back and forth) outside the jolla office...

I think Tomorrow we will see some invites...
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I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
Last edited by Dave999; 2016-01-18 at 19:52.
 
robthebold is offline robthebold
2016-01-18 , 19:15
Posts: 1,038 | Thanked: 3,980 times | Joined on Nov 2010 @ USA
#3864
Originally Posted by att View Post
People are so impatient nowadays. Everything and NOW. And never heard of "release early, release often"
Thanks. Finally something to smile about in this thread.
 
aegis is offline aegis
2016-01-18 , 19:39
Posts: 702 | Thanked: 2,059 times | Joined on Feb 2011 @ UK
#3865
Originally Posted by JulmaHerra View Post
First of all, TJC platform allows voting for every single topic there is. It's not like Jolla "let community vote on having offline maps and navigation" and were in any way bound to deliver it.
Yes. The problem however is one of expectation. If you've given free reign to the community to request a feature, and vote on it, but then you don't deliver it, the less charitable in the community will just say that you're not listening to the community.

Originally Posted by JulmaHerra View Post
It is merely an indicator of what the community wishes and they have to decide if they are able to implement and deliver those or not, or if there is something more urgent. However, on exFAT debacle it was different as supporting bigger SD-cards was an option on crowdfunding, which resulted in question about the money used on licensing, which resulted in heated debate should it be paid or not. No-side was winning (unfortunately in quite big majority), so it was natural for them to listen to the community on that point.
Except they didn't listen to the community. They'd already decided. The voting was just an exercise in whitewashing.

But anyway, the problem with controversial referenda like that is it becomes an emotional decision from the uninformed vocal minority rather than a technical one and Jolla rigged the question to get the answer they wanted.

Originally Posted by JulmaHerra View Post
But maybe they won't ask any longer but make the decisions by themselves in the future. Seems to be better option.
Agreed though they'll still get into problems announcing decisions and then going back on them as in SDxc support.


Originally Posted by JulmaHerra View Post
Well, Nokia was not about to give them accesss to HERE maps, which was to be their major selling point in the Windows Phone venture. Nor they intended to create a Sailfish port of it.
The Sailfish maps app uses HERE Maps and there's other mapping solutions out there. The developers of the Jolla Map app moved on to using something else for their routing and maps anyway.

But that wasn't my point. My point was that in the N9 there were a whole bunch of proprietary apps and features that Jolla didn't have the code to. It was prescient of the MeeGo team to open source a lot of stuff before the project was canned but a lot of the N9's apps weren't. Jolla did well in writing new apps for Sailfish to REPLACE the closed source old Nokia apps before release. They also sort of got many of the N9's features like an event view, twitter integration, facebook integration and accounts plugins nearly there before release but then stopped and we had to wait until 2.0 for some of those.

Originally Posted by JulmaHerra View Post
That is a question you'll have to find your own answer. Just remember that Nokia was in no way obligated to give Jolla anything. They might have done something for considerable amount of money, but I doubt Jolla ever had such money to throw in.
That wasn't what I was saying. The expectation from many, and it may be incorrect, was that we were getting a continuation of the N9 family line. In many ways we got that but we also lost some features, apps and capabilities which still haven't returned.


Originally Posted by JulmaHerra View Post
Most likely they intended to create the scalability part later when it's time to launch another devices. Considering how immature Sailfish was on launch, I really don't think it would have been wise to throw in resources on such thing at that time.
Maybe. But It appears to have bit them later on and made it impossible to licence.



Originally Posted by JulmaHerra View Post
My point is, that quite a bit of the bashing is completely disregarding situations and reasons that led to certain decisions. They are screwed, yes. But it does not mean that every suggestion is better than the choices they have made, especially when we are talking about things that require great deal of time, money and other resources. So pardon my scepticism.
Well we're all playing armchair project management here but it's sometimes quite fair to be critical without it being 'bashing' or trolling and it is mostly frustration at yet another failed linux smartphone attempt.
 
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ZogG is offline ZogG
2016-01-18 , 19:40
Posts: 1,389 | Thanked: 1,857 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Israel
#3866
Originally Posted by JulmaHerra View Post
AFAIK UI was originally written with Qt4 and X. With libhybris they could not use either of those. It takes more than recompile to change it to Qt5 and Wayland. I'm looking at the big picture, not a single feature, and when there is huge amount of work to do, one has to prioritize. From that point of view it's not surprising that scalability of the UI was not in top priority instead of just getting it to work.
So they rewrite and still did not made UI scalable for tablet? Again why they had to do the salfish OS 2 which is mostly adaptation to screen size. So yes they are twice stupid if they had time to rewrite and they made same mistake twice. Especially when as you mentioned maemo and meego did it before and they should know better if they came from maemo and meego. Basically you should learn from mistake, don't you?
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aegis is offline aegis
2016-01-18 , 19:52
Posts: 702 | Thanked: 2,059 times | Joined on Feb 2011 @ UK
#3867
Originally Posted by ZogG View Post
Basically you should learn from mistake, don't you?
First you have to recognise it as a mistake.
 
rcolistete is offline rcolistete
2016-01-18 , 20:05
Posts: 1,269 | Thanked: 3,961 times | Joined on May 2011 @ Brazil
#3868
Originally Posted by ZogG View Post
So they rewrite and still did not made UI scalable for tablet? Again why they had to do the salfish OS 2 which is mostly adaptation to screen size. So yes they are twice stupid if they had time to rewrite and they made same mistake twice. Especially when as you mentioned maemo and meego did it before and they should know better if they came from maemo and meego. Basically you should learn from mistake, don't you?
And you should learn from history. By reading.

Go study the history of many companies making mobile OS for smartphones and tablets. Like many years and US$ millions spent by Google and Apple with Android (3.x was tablet specific) and iOS. Like the first versions (of Andriod, iOS, etc) in the first years were very feature-wise limited.
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Python, C/C++, Qt and CAS developer. For Maemo/MeeGo/Sailfish :
Integral, Derivative, Limit - calculating mathematical integrals, derivatives and limits. SymPy - Computer Algebra System.
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-- My blog about mobile & scientific computing ---
Sailfish : Sony Xperia X, Gemini, Jolla, Jolla C, Jolla Tablet, Nexus 4. Nokia N9, N900, N810.
 
JulmaHerra is offline JulmaHerra
2016-01-18 , 20:20
Posts: 285 | Thanked: 1,900 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#3869
Originally Posted by aegis View Post
Yes. The problem however is one of expectation. If you've given free reign to the community to request a feature, and vote on it, but then you don't deliver it, the less charitable in the community will just say that you're not listening to the community.
There is no company in the world that implement everything communities/consumers ask regardless of price etc. Yes, it's the problem of expectations - and frankly, refusal to accept what is possible for small company with limited resources. They stated it early on: they don't have the expertise in house to develop navigation software, it would have to be outsourced and that costs money. Which, as you are well aware, is something they are pretty much short of.

Another thing about priorities is that even if they prioritized the way you wanted them to, situation would not change. It would be the same criticism, just pointed to n+1 other features that were missing and should have implemented asap and preferably seven years before the platform was born. It's kind of battle one can never win.

Except they didn't listen to the community. They'd already decided. The voting was just an exercise in whitewashing.
Prove it.

The Sailfish maps app uses HERE Maps and there's other mapping solutions out there. The developers of the Jolla Map app moved on to using something else for their routing and maps anyway.
HERE maps used in Jolla phone is completely different technology compared to what's used in HERE navigation app. Developer of Jolla maps moved to open street maps (which is not nearly as accurate or complete than HERE, but it's free and FOSS), however, Jolla would have to pay for them to develop an navigation app for Sailfish. And they would have to pay for continued support. Which, given the state of the company, IMO is not realistic at this point, no matter how much I'd like to have native navigation app on my phone.

That wasn't what I was saying. The expectation from many, and it may be incorrect, was that we were getting a continuation of the N9 family line. In many ways we got that but we also lost some features, apps and capabilities which still haven't returned.
True. Much of it is due to the fact that evolution ran past N9 also, not nearly all implementations on different services work on it any longer (my old N9 was in use by my wife until last weekend, and then replaced because of broken screen). Another thing is that Jolla has touted privacy as their number one value, which means that some services may demand things they are not willing to compromise.

Maybe. But It appears to have bit them later on and made it impossible to licence.
Licensing difficulties IMO have much more to do with the fact that it was very immature and UI had too steep learning curve. Until they showcased 2.0 with slightly revised UI, earning logic for manufacturers etc. Rome was not built in one day, even if it was successfully burned in one night...

Well we're all playing armchair project management here but it's sometimes quite fair to be critical without it being 'bashing' or trolling and it is mostly frustration at yet another failed linux smartphone attempt.
I can accept critical viewpoints, when they have relevant arguments to support them and are applicable to the situation that was at hand at time of decisions made. usually critique that is kind of taken out of context will sooner or later reduced to bashing, to the degree that it becomes hard to say if it's frustration or rejoicing yet another failure. That's why I take the role of playing "devil's advocate", even if I'm frustrated by the situation and certain decisions.
 
JulmaHerra is offline JulmaHerra
2016-01-18 , 20:21
Posts: 285 | Thanked: 1,900 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#3870
Originally Posted by ZogG View Post
So they rewrite and still did not made UI scalable for tablet? Again why they had to do the salfish OS 2 which is mostly adaptation to screen size. So yes they are twice stupid if they had time to rewrite and they made same mistake twice. Especially when as you mentioned maemo and meego did it before and they should know better if they came from maemo and meego. Basically you should learn from mistake, don't you?
Typical example of intentional misunderstanding in bad faith. Suits you sir.
 
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