And I rebut
show me the finished fully supported product and I will purchase it...thereby supporting the endeavour....

Like it works everywhere else in this consumable civilisation

perfect. That's quite constructive.
Now the creators can read your publicly voiced requirement and act accordingly if they want to target you as a customer.

Let me expand. A new product needs early adopters. I everyone was waiting for all the things you listed (a fully stocked app store? are you serious?), then only products with multi-million companies behind them would ever have a chance.

Your rebuttal was much better. An off-the-shelf product, even if not fully polished, is a fair expectation.

As it is now, they've only presented the idea of a product. Frankly, I wonder why they even made a website for a such a shallow idea at this point. It's nothing more than "we'll create a mobile device using dated tech, which doesn't run on Android or iOS, and we promise we'll publish the schematics and all source code. And privacy! Yeah privacy!"

Even Jolla, Purism and Canonical had a more complete picture when they presented their ideas.

While the vast negative comments shouldnt surprise me. It does. Is it because the initial "soul" of this community has died? If so, who can we blame? Nokia, Neo900, Jolla, or any of the many others who "dated trying, while dying" ? Or our self?
I dont know, but I will endorse every company or single person who tries. An the original old timers of this forum propably will also, to the extend they can afford. At least, i hope.
Yeah, I am a dreamer. But sometimes dreams come true.
While locusf may not be a part of the particular project, one thing is for sure, i bet you 100%, he did a lot of engineering on most of our platforms, not the least - SailfishOS, and if he was working as hard with this new project, I am convinced we will see something we will like.

Blame the countless projects that inspire faith, talk the right kind of concerns that this group would follow and want (ex. open source, secure, Linux, configurable, not Android or iOS, etc.) and yet, we've gotten pretty much nothing in return for those investments. Folks are still waiting on those investments into Neo900, Jolla tablets, aluminum cases, Pyra, Turing and so forth.

Instead, we're dealing with stuff that is seemingly always coming "soon". Faith is finite as is this group willingness to finance these endeavors.

The negativity is a real issue. However it is because of lack of deliverables in the devices. We can all run Linux on Raspberry Pi's and other DIY devices all day. But it would be nice to communicate whilst walking around on a device that I could at least trust - trust to use, trust for privacy, trust that I can configure as I wish... that part is variable.

But the negativity is a clear and concise response to feeling mistreated and your faith taken for granted.

The companies that get it right are the ones that are at least communicating the ups and downs of their endeavors. Purism comes to mind. They've been transparent about it all.

Let's use a different thread for this discussion though. Necuno is a new product. They've yet to not deliver or even discuss what all is incoming. Give them at least the time to announce fully their intent.

We'll be watching.

Completely agree with all everyone has said...
Except one thing...
It isn't about negativity...or soul gone from community...
It is as gerbick said ...
It is very simple...
Its about not one or two or three endeavours failing to come through...
It multiple...as in many many many...
And yes they all say the right words....
And they have all gotten plenty of money from us...
And they still haven't come through...properly.
It isnt about negativity...and or a lack of soul...
I am happy and excited and hopeful for any upstart to come through...
But it is now ...after many many many many many years...balanced out with "arms crossed over chest" ...show it to me and I will buy it pragmatism ...
Yet STILL I support it...
I hope the best for it..
I wish the best for it..
I will even purchase multiples of the product ...so as to have back-ups and extras...
I will even purchase peripheral necessities for it..
everything from needed cables, attachments, cases batteries, etc etc etc...
and yet again purchase multiples of them as well...
And STILL yet again I will buy the limited edition severely overpriced t-shirts ...and other ridiculous paraphernalia ...

So no one give me that big pile of manure that there isn't money to be made from devices...
If Nokia were still gripping with both claws the money to be made...from the nokia internet tablet line...
To this day they wouldn't be eking out a pittance from the Nxx0 line...
not from folks like me...
or others here who think likewise about their devices...regardless the make or manufacturer...
and yet others who are buying one and all the needed bits as well...
Constantly folks are showing up here with devices ...
haven't ever used one...and new folks here...
and old maemoites ...come back with devices just bought ...in need of all the bits and necessities too....

And the whole..."only big companies .." shtick ...
Concerning inability for small endeavours to come through without gofundme emptying my wallet
Is a big load of crap.

the lone fund-er has little clout legally ...to chase down his investment...
Whereas the proper investor ..has no problem "lawyer-ing up" and going to court to retrieve his investment back.
So in the end ..
It is just easier to walk away with gofundme money than a proper investors...

Just because we wish open source and privacy and streamers from the handlebars ..and baseball cards in the spokes...
doesn't mean it cannot be a profitable endeavour....

IF the business model is sound...
THEN proper investors and / or the big corps will happily get involve / back / fund the endeavour....
THEN we ALL know something very good is going to ACTUALLY come through..
IF the big players / investors take an interest, it means that they know that there are gains to be made from a successful business model...
IF no big players / investors take an interest, then it is a model that will not fly.
It is pretty plain and simple...
It doesn't have to be a giant corporation...
all it needs to be is a smart business person or entity with enough capital who sees a good investment.
and a good investment means a good return..
and that means sales...
and that means numbers of endusers...
and that means a large enough pool of endusers to be considered a supportable community..
and naturally the investors focus is on the primary factor of seeing that the investment is backing a solidly and blatantly obvious excellent end product device / os as well.

So there is your litmus test.

(for example ..chen and his work has gotten BIG attention and support...his is a good model to weigh by...)


But show me another dozen or two dozen vague "coming soons.."
But show me another dozen or two dozen "we need your unconditional time and financial support or need an / yet another infusion of nonrefundable capital..."
or
"We need a pre-pre-pre-order fundraiser...then we will go to the pre-pre-order fundraiser.."

And I will simply not listen ....not anymore.

Its a steaming pile.

Show me a supported finished product I can purchase...
anything less is wasting my time...
wasting everyone's time.
with waiting..
with funds..
with writing post after post supporting and defending ...such towering B.S...
or in my case ...finally having enough of my fill doing so..
recanted....
and write posts saying .."sure be hopeful...but be pragmatic about it."

Yet another > 4.7" screen phone

I assume you are referring to my post. Maybe I was trying to be too terse and did not express myself clearly enough. I was not implying the need for any funding. I was merely referring to this post of yours where you asked for, I quote,

I maintain that no new product will ever come with all of the above included. Heck, even Android, today the most successful mobile OS under the sun, did not come with all of it included when it first came out.

A product need a certain critical mass of users to attract
a) 3rd party developers to provide "apps that are functional and competitive with the opposition";
b) lasting support by its own creator.

It takes a lot of money to maintain a product like a mobile OS. If it wasn't for early adopters who are willing to pay for "an OS that is half baked" and "a repo with not enough apps that are functional and competitive with the opposition", if everyone was waiting until all those things were sorted out, then what do you think would happen?

There are only two possibilities:
1) The company gives up;
2) The company finds a large investor who assumes the role of the missing early adopters at the price of the company losing its independence and the product losing its attractiveness to the very people who called for the product in the first place but were too cautious to back it.

My views are mostly the same as @nieldk has, I have not much to add.

In my mind one needs to keep keep an open mind towards new developments, I am a bit saddened that some community members seem to have descended into some vitrious pit of nonbelief recently.