Originally Posted by herpderp

That's not the same thing. For one, IE was never open source. Anybody can take Android's source and fork it, they just can't release devices with it and label it as official android (they won't get play services for it, for example).

Originally Posted by ZogG

With all these said, there are ROMs of android without Google services and you can release phone with it, you lose Google support, but if you can replace it(provide alternative) it's not a problem.

Originally Posted by nthn

Google must be completely destroyed for freedom to be saved.

Originally Posted by ZogG

So if you do not know what are modern apps and you do need UI with buttons, why did you buy jolla and not n900 that has most apps jolla has and cheaper and more hackable?

Originally Posted by ZogG

As well as it's kind of funny to hear guy who talks about open source and on other hand says that there is no need for several same apps. Maybe the freedom of choice and as well as competition is good.

Originally Posted by ZogG

You may as well tell that there is no need for Facebook or Twitter, but currently there is no proper apps even for that.

Originally Posted by ZogG

But again I feel that any app that most people are using (even if it's not important time-waste apps) and is not on jolla I mention you'll tell there is no need for that. But guess what, I want to decide not to use Facebook app/chat and not to be forced because there is no option.
Those apps maybe are not most useful, and maybe you use ssh to connect to home server to switch song from toilet more often than using apps with UI, but those apps are standards for any smartphone.

Originally Posted by ZogG

And about UI vs console. Yes on computer console may be more useful than gui apps in a lot of cases, but not on the phone. You can't admire swipe, gestures and pulley menu (features of jolla being unlike) and at the same time to say you use console. You see the logic here? If you like swipes so much, but use only console apps?

Originally Posted by ZogG

And yes android and iPhone have hundreds of thousands shitty apps and programs, but still even if they have 10% of cool apps it's way more than jolla has in total - not to compare, just telling that you shouldn't judge android by bad apps, but by good apps, as most services, gadgets, iots support android out of box, android has system administration, console and terminal, and you can even compile kernel. So if you compare you should not compare good side of you fav product with bad side of other one. Btw there are roms which are more open source and hack friendly than jolla

Originally Posted by nthn

Please stop spreading the misinformation that 'Android' is 'open source'. It isn't. There's something called AOSP, which is a part of Android, but isn't a fully functioning operating system by itself. What's more, lots of stuff in AOSP has not been updated for years, but has instead been moved into proprietary Google apps (compare the AOSP music player versus Google's latest music player, the AOSP browser versus Google's Chrome, the AOSP Calendar versus Google's Calendar), under the pretense that this makes the applications better integrated. Sure, there's better integration - if you sell your soul to Google. Google has absolute and total control over Android, because they can just stop updating the free parts of the OS (which they have done, still do, and will keep doing), and place any aspiring phone makers into a situation where the only way out is to lose (one way is to lose users, the other is to lose 'Android'). Cyanogen(Mod) is a joke. AOSP/Android/whatever can and will devolve into a situation where the only (partly) free part of the system will be the kernel.


That's entirely the problem: it is impossible to provide alternatives to all of Google's prisons. They have taken their monopoly and used it so no one will ever be able to kick them off the throne again. Google must be completely destroyed for freedom to be saved.

Originally Posted by ZogG

And is jolla's opensource part is fully working operation system and how is jolla different from google in the way they lead their company?

Originally Posted by juiceme

I do have N900 but the HW is fairly dated. Nice device but lacking memory/cpu/connections. And yes, I am waiting for Neo900 which adresses these problems.
Jolla is just as hackable as N900 is. And it is a natural evolution on the same principles.

BTW you still did not define the "modern apps" I asked about.




You delibrately misquote/misunderstand me.




Okay, I'll bite the bullet you throw to me; "There is no need for Facebook or Twitter" <--- You can quote me on that.
I use neither and see no value in them.









You really really have not thought this through. I am not saying UI does not matter, I am saying that in addition to UI the important thing is to have the device be extendible/customizable to the point that you can easily automate tasks, that you do not need to rely on functionality decided by manufacturers and application vendors.
Look, it is not just about swipes; WP has swipes of it's kind but it is not extendible!

When you talk about "console" you seem to think that means using the console to launch functionality... When I talk about "console" I mean the whole works; functionality that does not need any UI to be useful;
Just some examples;

• automatically immediately uploading any pictures I take to my gallery online
• recording all my calls
• backing the device up each night
• setting device mode based on the location I am currently
• tracking my location and updating that to my private online route map

Of course android has shell console; however what makes it difficult to use is the fact that even as the kernel domain is linux the userspace is not libc-compatible and thus you have really hard time using the standard toolchain. It is just not meant to be used like that.
You talk about there being more open and hackable roms, but the fact remains that they still have the same bionic-induced problems as any android derivatives. The only one real alternative is SFOS I am afraid.

Originally Posted by juiceme

Yes. It is called "Mer"

Originally Posted by ZogG

you can install mer on any device and it has UI and working system or just core with system apps/libs? And is it even less smarphone ready than opensource part of android?

Originally Posted by herpderp

You don't seem to understand. Google is evil and it must be destroyed. /s

Originally Posted by juiceme

BTW you still did not define the "modern apps" I asked about.

Originally Posted by juiceme

You really really have not thought this through. I am not saying UI does not matter, I am saying that in addition to UI the important thing is to have the device be extendible/customizable to the point that you can easily automate tasks, that you do not need to rely on functionality decided by manufacturers and application vendors.

When you talk about "console" you seem to think that means using the console to launch functionality... When I talk about "console" I mean the whole works; functionality that does not need any UI to be useful;
Just some examples;

• automatically immediately uploading any pictures I take to my gallery online
• recording all my calls
• backing the device up each night
• setting device mode based on the location I am currently
• tracking my location and updating that to my private online route map

Originally Posted by ZogG

So basically you are telling me that most people would need and prefer smartphone to compile kernel on it rather than having device using various services that ease your everyday life?