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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2009-03-19 , 14:09
Posts: 3,397 | Thanked: 1,212 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands
#31
I ran a mini-test with my wife, who is no dummy at computers (she is able to Screen Share into our Mac mini HTPC just fine, knows what SSH is, and does light admin of the computers at her office)
How did she learn this, and how long did it take her? You do realize these traits have nothing to do with touch UI paradigms? You did put it in fullscreen mode I hope? Thats the first thing I do... the rest of the stuff is distracting.

Have you told her the tips & tricks I quoted above? Its 3 of them. They should be very clearly in the first startup screen IMO. 2 of them are, but apparently the instructions are not clear enough.
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buurmas is offline buurmas
2009-03-19 , 14:18
Posts: 670 | Thanked: 367 times | Joined on Mar 2009
#32
To interject re: scrolling again, I think usable flick-gesture rapid scrolling (which I still cannot get to work--am I missing something??) would be about as good as a scroll bar for web pages as long as these ITT forum pages. However, for very long pages (e.g., an entire manual or help system or FAQ or eBook) , no way. Maybe someone isn't going to pull up a long page like that on a smartphone, but I sure will on my n810.
 
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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2009-03-19 , 14:35
Posts: 3,397 | Thanked: 1,212 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands
#33
Originally Posted by namtastic View Post
True, but that's just trying to make it easier for the developer, not the user.
How do you mean? Either the developer has to arrange translations by the translation team or the developer has to arrange a graphics artist who makes the icon. You can translate bad, and you can pick a bad icon.

Not just that, but like you said, you have to *learn* the action. Once you've learned it, the icons are only reminders for something you already know what to do.
Exactly. A power button usually has the power symbol on it. My TV has that. My coffee machine has that. My laptop has that. My speakers have that. And so on. My old speakers do not have that btw:

http://www.plaatjesupload.nl/bekijk/...471771-330.jpg (click to view)

Now I ask you: what is more logic? And don't we now by now that if the button is pushed inwards, that it is on? Do you notice the colour of the button? All the other buttons and knobs are grey and black.

I'll keep you pondering what the right button 'automatic' does.

The power symbol is just like BlueTooth a symbol with wide brand recognition. RSS same. Back too. Forward too. Trash too.

The most important use here is teaching new users new interactions the first time using it, and these icons aren't doing the job.
Icons never do such job unless they already have brand recognition. Teaching this is the job of the documentation.

Tap on the top-most bar (with the time/network/etc. on it). Works system-wide.
Doesn't work here with firmware 2.2.1.

Funny enough, I JUST figured this out today and it has a lot to do with ergonomics. It's because when I am scrolling up, my swipes are not as straight as when they are going down.
This is very interesting.

Simultaneously, Fennec does NOT take into consideration that most people can't pefectly drag straight up and down -- you can see this when you try to flick-scroll when zoomed in: the page will slightly shift left or right at the same time (being right-handed, it's to the right for me). It's impossible to drag a page down without shifting it slightly.
True. This is also interesting, and not easy to solve. My first response would be that anything between a 315 and 45 radius from the starting point is a swipe to up. Anything between 45 and 135 is a swipe to right. Anything between 135 and 225 is a swipe to down. Anything between 225 and 315 is a swipe to left.

I understand your experience because I experienced it as well but because I know how the gestures work and because I know their meaning I am not surprised by it anymore.

BTW, the original Mac OS HIG has a lot to stay about how menu panels are triggered and kept open on a curve because users don't ever move on perfect vert/horiz paths. If you've ever had a hard time moving from menu panel A to menu sub-panel B, it's because someone was too strict about that movement and didn't allow room for error.
Yes, like browsing the Start Menu in Windows

There's definitely a lesson for Fennec to learn there if they want to make the flick-scrolling feel natural since they've added these left and right panels to dragging a page around.
Maybe we can give feedback once we agree (or have weeded out) the arguments. What do you say about the compass description I gave? Does it make sense? Is it too limited?
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Last edited by allnameswereout; 2009-03-24 at 15:14. Reason: image too big; linking to it instead
 
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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2009-03-19 , 14:38
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#34
Originally Posted by buurmas View Post
To interject re: scrolling again, I think usable flick-gesture rapid scrolling (which I still cannot get to work--am I missing something??) would be about as good as a scroll bar for web pages as long as these ITT forum pages. However, for very long pages (e.g., an entire manual or help system or FAQ or eBook) , no way. Maybe someone isn't going to pull up a long page like that on a smartphone, but I sure will on my n810.
Pretty sure people do scroll long pages. I agree though; good point.
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buurmas is offline buurmas
2009-03-19 , 14:42
Posts: 670 | Thanked: 367 times | Joined on Mar 2009
#35
More feedback:
* I think my problem with needing to sometimes tap on a link or button on a web page multiple times is because Fennec generally becomes unresponsive sometimes. In fact, it seems like Fennec can make the rest of my system temporarily unresponsive.

* Sometimes when Fennec is refreshing the screen it will reload the web page. This seems unnecessary, but it has other drawbacks. It is unexpected by the user, so it looks like there's something wrong with program ("Why is it doing that?"). It wastes time. It wastes money for those with cellular connections & certain data plans. And, if you loaded the page & disconnected from the Internet & this happens, then you can no longer read (or finish reading, as the case may be) the page.
 
namtastic is offline namtastic
2009-03-19 , 14:48
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#36
Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
How did she learn this, and how long did it take her? You do realize these traits have nothing to do with touch UI paradigms? You did put it in fullscreen mode I hope? Thats the first thing I do... the rest of the stuff is distracting.

Have you told her the tips & tricks I quoted above? Its 3 of them. They should be very clearly in the first startup screen IMO. 2 of them are, but apparently the instructions are not clear enough.
She's had a iPhone (1st gen) for over a year now, FWIW. So touch UIs are not foreign to her either.

But I didn't tell her anything or lead her into the functionality at all, that would have influenced the test obviously. I simply left Fennec in its default startup state and observed her from there.
 
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deeteroderdas is offline deeteroderdas
2009-03-19 , 14:53
Posts: 274 | Thanked: 62 times | Joined on Jul 2007 @ Helotes, TX
#37
Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
It comes with a manual/tutorial. I suggest one reads this before trying, or reads it when trying.
Seriously, who reads manuals?
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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2009-03-19 , 14:58
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#38
Originally Posted by namtastic View Post
She's had a iPhone (1st gen) for over a year now, FWIW. So touch UIs are not foreign to her either.

But I didn't tell her anything or lead her into the functionality at all, that would have influenced the test obviously. I simply left Fennec in its default startup state and observed her from there.
That is what I mean. Being used to an iPhone scews the experiment. Because there the gestures are to move up/down/left/right. There is no full screen browsing. You should put the screen full screen so nothing about Maemo is influencing her.

You should have explained her the 3 tips & tricks and let her try again. See if she understands it then. Or show the intro video. See if she understands it then. It is now explained visually, but not in a video. It is a motionless picture. Without text. If you'd show a small video instead of a static picture the user would probably get it. Potentially without sound or text.
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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2009-03-19 , 14:59
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#39
Originally Posted by deeteroderdas View Post
Seriously, who reads manuals?
Users who bought something and cannot figure out how the damn piece of **** works...
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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2009-03-19 , 15:15
Posts: 3,397 | Thanked: 1,212 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands
#40
The new Fennec beta has caught a lot of attention in news.

If you'd read the comments here it is pretty clear people do want this browser on their mobile phone. It has potention. The early Mozilla Seamonkey milestones also had potention...
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