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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2009-05-09 , 18:29
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#31
Originally Posted by krisse View Post
Staying where they are isn't an option, as it isn't really leading anywhere commercially. People simply aren't buying tablet-sized devices, they are all going for something smaller or bigger.
You keep saying this, but I don't believe it. The only reason the MID-sized market isn't exploding is because the tech hasn't yet gotten to the point where it's powerful enough to replace those small laptops for most people's uses, but that's changing this generation.

This market is going to explode over the next 3 years.

Really, though, there's no way Nokia isn't planning on diversifying the lineup, so it's a moot point.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-05-09 , 18:43
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#32
Originally Posted by krisse View Post
Nokia have got two choices with how to make Maemo commercially viable.

They can either make it a lot bigger (to compete with mini-laptops):

http://www.gadgeteer.org.uk/wp-conte...n810vseee1.jpg

or make it a lot smaller (to compete with phones and music players):

http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php...1&d=1240756582

http://mightygadget.co.uk/wp-content...ands-on-20.jpg
Or both, as I've always suggested.
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Mara is offline Mara
2009-05-09 , 18:53
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#33
I think Krisse has put it very well in a nutshell: I also believe that most people (outside the ITT readers...) either look for something in a size of a phone, or bigger (netbooks). The key characteristics are (in my opinion) that it has to be easily pocketable (phone size), or big enough for serious web surfing or office document viewing/editing (netbook size that fits in a small suitcase or purse/backpack). The tablets fall between those two.categories. That "in between" category hasn't been marketed yet, so most people do not know that they need that too... or that it could be a compromise to replace both the phone and netbook.

I think it is just marketing: If Nokia was serious about making tablets a hit they could have made a big marketing campaing and make people aware of that "need". But as most of you know the current tablets just aren't really ready for ordinary people, yet.

EDIT: Just what GA said... there is a market that can be fit and can be a success. The main reason why this has not happened yet is because the technology just hasn't been there yet. Phone tech is mature, as well as laptops, which the netbooks are a derivate. MID market is new and at its infancy.
Last edited by Mara; 2009-05-09 at 18:57.
 

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2009-05-09 , 18:55
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#34
Again, the solution is platforming.

Personally I think Nokia dropped the ball there (and I'm well aware of the deliberate rationales involved) but I'm trying to be hopeful...
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2009-05-09 , 19:02
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#35
The only reason the MID-sized market isn't exploding is because the tech hasn't yet gotten to the point where it's powerful enough to replace those small laptops for most people's uses
Then why did even the cheapest EEE PC and its rivals do so well despite having specs similar to the N810? The reason I think they succeeded while the tablets failed is the stuff beyond the specs, i.e. the actual device size.

You can't really use a tablet-size device as an effective substitute for a computer. It doesn't matter how good the processor is, the small tablet keyboard cripples the device as a computer.

Typing is absolutely key to using e-mail, instant messaging, chat rooms, word processing, spreadsheets, forum posting, and a lot of other core computing functions. All of these things are quite painful on an N810-size device compared to a mini-laptop or larger. You might write one or two sentences on an N810 keyboard but very few people would use them beyond that for any length of time.

Even hardcore users benefit from a netbook-size (or larger) keyboard because it makes programming, web site maintenance, script editing, command lines etc a lot easier to use.

Mini-laptop keyboards are probably the smallest keyboard you can comfortably type large amounts of text on. Once you go smaller than a mini-laptop, text entry becomes annoying, so the device ceases to be about doing and more about passive things like watching, listening and reading. There's not much action, it's mostly just data flowing one way into the device instead of off it.

That's why Canola's designers concentrated on consuming media, because they knew that a tablet is more about watching things than actually creating stuff. That's probably also why things like the iPhone/iPod Touch and Kindle are doing so well, because they are all about media consumption and have almost nothing to do with productivity.

I just went away for a week's holiday and was able to type long articles (2000+ words each) on the cheapest model EEE PC. I could never do that on the N810, my fingers would give up after the first 500 words.

I could do my job on a mini-laptop, I cannot do it on a tablet. It's nothing to do with processor speed or anything like that, it's just very very difficult to write large amounts of text on a tablet keyboard.
Last edited by krisse; 2009-05-09 at 19:05.
 

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2009-05-09 , 19:08
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#36
Originally Posted by krisse View Post
Then why did even the cheapest EEE PC and its rivals do so well despite having specs similar to the N810? The reason I think they succeeded while the tablets failed is the stuff beyond the specs, i.e. the actual device size.
Well, first, the specs aren't remotely similar. Second, Office.

Really, consumers don't know what a tablet is or why they need it. They get netbooks, as they're just small laptops. This doesn't mean that there's no market for tablets, it just means that somebody needs to show consumers why they need them. This is what Nokia's going to really ramp up on with Fremantle.
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Last edited by GeneralAntilles; 2009-05-09 at 19:10.
 

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kanishou is offline kanishou
2009-05-09 , 20:22
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#37
Originally Posted by krisse View Post
Then why did even the cheapest EEE PC and its rivals do so well despite having specs similar to the N810? The reason I think they succeeded while the tablets failed is the stuff beyond the specs, i.e. the actual device size.

You can't really use a tablet-size device as an effective substitute for a computer. It doesn't matter how good the processor is, the small tablet keyboard cripples the device as a computer.

Typing is absolutely key to using e-mail, instant messaging, chat rooms, word processing, spreadsheets, forum posting, and a lot of other core computing functions. All of these things are quite painful on an N810-size device compared to a mini-laptop or larger. You might write one or two sentences on an N810 keyboard but very few people would use them beyond that for any length of time.

Even hardcore users benefit from a netbook-size (or larger) keyboard because it makes programming, web site maintenance, script editing, command lines etc a lot easier to use.

Mini-laptop keyboards are probably the smallest keyboard you can comfortably type large amounts of text on. Once you go smaller than a mini-laptop, text entry becomes annoying, so the device ceases to be about doing and more about passive things like watching, listening and reading. There's not much action, it's mostly just data flowing one way into the device instead of off it.

That's why Canola's designers concentrated on consuming media, because they knew that a tablet is more about watching things than actually creating stuff. That's probably also why things like the iPhone/iPod Touch and Kindle are doing so well, because they are all about media consumption and have almost nothing to do with productivity.

I just went away for a week's holiday and was able to type long articles (2000+ words each) on the cheapest model EEE PC. I could never do that on the N810, my fingers would give up after the first 500 words.

I could do my job on a mini-laptop, I cannot do it on a tablet. It's nothing to do with processor speed or anything like that, it's just very very difficult to write large amounts of text on a tablet keyboard.
This is absolutely right (Edit: I should have said "I agree with you" ). I can think of three basic categories of mobile gadgets:

* The Communicator - You want to always carry it with you to be connected, and thus it must be pocket sized. It doesn't just communicate with other people, but also with the internet and your data. Data input is limited to writing messages and entering small amounts of new data (e.g. adding a calendar entry, or entering a website URL). I believe a thumb keyboard is ideal for this and a very sensible upgrade over T9 input.

This will also often be your music player, because it makes sense to be able to listen to your music wherever you are walking.

* The Reader - As you point out, this is what the mass market "tablets" are apparently aiming for. Large displays to display media, especially for convenient reading and watching films. This is something you want to be able to carry in a small bag, like a book. It doesn't matter that it fits in your pocket, because you don't need it to be accessible on a moment's notice, and it doesn't need any sophisticated input methods whatsoever. I believe that a thumb keyboard is completely out of place on such a device.

* The Workstation - Any laptop or netbook is designed to get work done. The ideal form factor is a light and thin device that fits easily into a bag or suit case. Whenever you intend to get work done, you are likely to at least carry your bag or suitcase with you. The MacBook Air is a very good example for this, as is any netbook of course. What matters here is ten-finger data input and the ability to run off-the-mill productivity applications.

Now, it seems that some believe that we will have a need for a tablet designed as a workstation. I would be surprised if this actually happened, because it really limits your potential userbase. On the one hand you have people who would be willing to make compromises (mainly much less efficient input) for the sake of saving money (by only buying a single device) or convenience (by not having to carry a bag to work). Since this kind of device would be about your productivity, I don't believe that too many people would be willing to make this kind of compromise.

On the other hand, you would have people who depend on complex data-input and -crunching while walking around. This may be the case in various industrial areas, and this seems to be what TexRat is often talking about.


Now think about what kind of device Maemo (and especially Fremantle) would be most suited for.
Last edited by kanishou; 2009-05-09 at 20:32.
 

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2009-05-09 , 20:31
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#38
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Or both, as I've always suggested.
Also, keep a version the same size.
 

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2009-05-09 , 20:39
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#39
Originally Posted by krisse View Post
Well, you can actually have a very large screen on a small device thanks to TV Out:



and a very large keyboard too thanks to Bluetooth:

Ok, I've got the whole bluetooth keyboard thing, but that darned TV out thing looks slick as heck. Kinda wish there were some way over the USB port that could do that with my NIT.
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2009-05-09 , 22:03
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#40
I agree with Krisse this far: Tablet-size is not the sweet-spot that phone-size and subnotebook-size are, for the reasons he and kanishou are saying.

But that doesn't mean Tablet-size can't succeed; it just won't sell as many units as the other categories. Not as many people "need" a Tablet-sized device, like they need a cellphone or a laptop. But I do -- and I can't believe I'm the only one!

I think there are generally special reasons that Tablet users like the Tablets, or else they would just use a phone and a laptop. Fortunately, there are enough of us with "special reasons" that I believe we comprise a market that is sustainable, even if it is not a market nearly as large as the cellphone market

(Speaking personally, as an example, my reasons are "special": As I've said before, for lightweight foreign travel, there's nothing else that comes close. But lightweight foreign travelers aren't exactly a huge market. And I like to surf the web, read eBooks, etc. in bed -- again, nothing (other than the iPhone/iTouch) comes close -- but that isn't exactly a burgeoning market, either.)
 

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