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Reggie's Avatar
Reggie is offline Reggie
2009-08-14 , 18:52
Posts: 1,436 | Thanked: 3,144 times | Joined on Jul 2005
#31
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
Do you want to start that list? I can say I was impressed by the imagination and simple execution of the Ocarina when someone came one day blowing in an iPod Touch.
Yes, a list of most popular iPhone apps is great, but I think it's more than that. We can look at the 'majority' and see what apps most use or look for in an 'always connected' device, but then if we limit ourselves with that, we are missing a great deal of opportunity here.

I think a device should tap certain user groups and these user groups are random. The key here is making a device work for anyone -- this is hard. It becomes harder when Nokia keeps marketing the N-series (and now Maemo devices) for 'cutting-edge' users. This should be stopped and just work hard to target everyone. 'Cutting-edge' nowadays has just become 'the ordinary'.

Now let's go back to the apps and a way to target everyone. Apple is just brilliant with the iPhone/iPod touch "There's an app for that" ads. Before you roll your eyes because I'm praising Apple, think about it for a minute -- "there's an app for that." Now, look at these posts from TUAW (the first is quite interesting):
Apple was able to tap to these groups of people because suddenly, apps started appearing that catered to these folks. The addition of a hundred apps per day in the App Store looks and sound chaotic, but majority of these useless apps become gems for some.

I'm sure Apple never predicted that this would happen (or did they?). All they did though is create good enough hardware with a stable enough OS, and development environment that any developer can use.


There's an iPhone app that lets me monitor and control my saltwater tank from anywhere. While it sounds funny, for me, it is one of the main reasons, I (and several other reefers) use the iPhone for. This is another example of a 'group.'

Some random words: community, specialty, connected, collective, emergence, smart mobs
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Jaffa's Avatar
Jaffa is offline Jaffa
2009-08-14 , 18:55
Posts: 2,535 | Thanked: 6,681 times | Joined on Mar 2008 @ UK
#32
Originally Posted by tso View Post
i suspect this is one of the thing nokia is setting out to fix by switching to Qt.
Indeed. I also hope that the more powerful device will allow more people to develop by doing anything which requires a Linux system (such as running and debugging Maemo) to use an actual device rather than Scratchbox or a VM.

Anyway, this is the kind of thing I'll be touching on in my lighning session at the summit (including showing off features of the JVM such as hot-replace).

also, this may be the reason that python have gotten so much interest. besides the gui bits that requires a understanding of gtk/hildon, python is a interpreted language that can be written on any platform where there is a interpreter available. I think there are even people that use the N810 as a development platform directly as they can rewrite the python code on the spot.
*nods*. I wouldn't want to write lots of new code on the N810 (want lots of docs, and the keyboard's crap for coding), but I've certainly already done small patches to Attitude on the Tube.
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silvermountain's Avatar
silvermountain is offline silvermountain
2009-08-14 , 19:01
Posts: 1,359 | Thanked: 717 times | Joined on May 2009 @ ...standing right behind you...
#33
Ha, this topic goes kinda well with my post 'Is Free Fail?' :-)
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.N810 experience: Since 6/2009
My Twenty Favorite OS2008 Applications:
AutoScan, Diablo5 Theme, Dialcentral, DragLock, EmelFM2, FlipClock, gPodder, Headphoned, Knots 2, Maemo Mapper, mPlayer, openNTPD, OpenSSH, Panucci, Personal Launcher, QuickNote, Seqretary, SlideLock, Telescope, YellowNotes
 

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lma is offline lma
2009-08-14 , 19:16
Posts: 2,802 | Thanked: 4,491 times | Joined on Nov 2007
#34
Originally Posted by Jaffa View Post
It means that if you want an App Store which isn't trivial for an advanced user to circumvent.
And the "advanced" users will hold the "average" users' hands while they break whatever "protection" is in place.
 
nwerneck's Avatar
nwerneck is offline nwerneck
2009-08-14 , 19:35
Posts: 304 | Thanked: 233 times | Joined on Jul 2009 @ São Paulo, SP, Brasil
#35
To make the development easier, one first suggestion is making emacs run as easily as is advertised in the tutorial!...

I would not like to see Maemo turn into the iPhone. I don't want DRMs and all that stuff. I want a GNU machine with one or two "proprietary binary blobs" here and there for convenience of our free lives in this proprietary world (that means flash support and device drivers). A Debian machine with the non-free repo added, just like my desktop machine is! If that turns down companies and developers who I don't like, such as Micros~1, I see that as a positive thing.

It's wrong to ask for more users and more developers before thinking about what applications we would like to see. I liked to hear from qgil that he likes the ocarina iphone application! I was looking for a project to start, and I do know something about signal processing and about ocarinas as well (my girlfriend even brought me one from Chile a few months ago). I am seriously considering to start a Maemo Ocarina application right now!

Myself, I haven't been missing anything. I would just like the hardware to be upgraded, and the current applications to keep being enhanced...

But I have a testimonial to give you. I get sad and then angry when all my iPhone-loving friends say that my N800 has nothing of special or interesting. They all come wanting to pinch my screen to see if the pictures will zoom, they laugh at the lack of animations while I browse through my albums... And if I show them something the NITs do that iPhones don't, thay say it's unimportant. Like, you know, MULTITASKING.

I get upset. But I have suffered this kind of prejudice all my life, and I'm quickly getting over it. No, I don't want to attract the iPhone developers, just as I don't want to attract "the average joe" to Linux.

See, using free software is a bit of an act of heroism. You don't ask people to be heroes, you just present them the situation and let them take the decision to act heroically. So I stopped trying to convince people to use Linux a long time ago, and I'm not going to try to convince people to buy Nokia's tablets.

I am sure this is very bad PR for Nokia. But that's not my problem! I will love to see more Linux based tablets coming. But if it's not economically viable, and Nokia gives up, that's just my bad luck. I am happy now with my N800. I would like to have another machine to make me happy in the future. But if Maemo turns into something similar to the iPhone, that won't make me happy anymore, and I'll just have to be looking for the next N800...

Back in the good old days some people would make the hardware, and some other would make the software. If Nokia puts itself as a hardware provider to me, and let me easily install mer or whatever, then we'll be friends for a long time. If they start to force me into the jailbreaking nonsense, I'm outta here.

I close up with a very popular poem:

Heartbeats they were racin'
Freedom he was chasin'
Spotlights, sirens, rifles firing
But he made it out
With a bullet in his back
 

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zerojay is offline zerojay
2009-08-14 , 19:42
Posts: 2,669 | Thanked: 2,555 times | Joined on Apr 2007
#36
Originally Posted by nwerneck View Post
To make the development easier, one first suggestion is making emacs run as easily as is advertised in the tutorial!...

I would not like to see Maemo turn into the iPhone. I don't want DRMs and all that stuff. I want a GNU machine with one or two "proprietary binary blobs" here and there for convenience of our free lives in this proprietary world (that means flash support and device drivers). A Debian machine with the non-free repo added, just like my desktop machine is! If that turns down companies and developers who I don't like, such as Micros~1, I see that as a positive thing.

It's wrong to ask for more users and more developers before thinking about what applications we would like to see. I liked to hear from qgil that he likes the ocarina iphone application! I was looking for a project to start, and I do know something about signal processing and about ocarinas as well (my girlfriend even brought me one from Chile a few months ago). I am seriously considering to start a Maemo Ocarina application right now!

Myself, I haven't been missing anything. I would just like the hardware to be upgraded, and the current applications to keep being enhanced...

But I have a testimonial to give you. I get sad and then angry when all my iPhone-loving friends say that my N800 has nothing of special or interesting. They all come wanting to pinch my screen to see if the pictures will zoom, they laugh at the lack of animations while I browse through my albums... And if I show them something the NITs do that iPhones don't, thay say it's unimportant. Like, you know, MULTITASKING.

I get upset. But I have suffered this kind of prejudice all my life, and I'm quickly getting over it. No, I don't want to attract the iPhone developers, just as I don't want to attract "the average joe" to Linux.

See, using free software is a bit of an act of heroism. You don't ask people to be heroes, you just present them the situation and let them take the decision to act heroically. So I stopped trying to convince people to use Linux a long time ago, and I'm not going to try to convince people to buy Nokia's tablets.

I am sure this is very bad PR for Nokia. But that's not my problem! I will love to see more Linux based tablets coming. But if it's not economically viable, and Nokia gives up, that's just my bad luck. I am happy now with my N800. I would like to have another machine to make me happy in the future. But if Maemo turns into something similar to the iPhone, that won't make me happy anymore, and I'll just have to be looking for the next N800...

Back in the good old days some people would make the hardware, and some other would make the software. If Nokia puts itself as a hardware provider to me, and let me easily install mer or whatever, then we'll be friends for a long time. If they start to force me into the jailbreaking nonsense, I'm outta here.

I close up with a very popular poem:

Heartbeats they were racin'
Freedom he was chasin'
Spotlights, sirens, rifles firing
But he made it out
With a bullet in his back
When you choose to use Linux and open source, you're taking the red pill. You see all the ugly insides... you see the truth behind software development. You are as responsible for your own experience on Linux as anyone else. The freedom's worth it to me.

For people like your friends that have taken the blue pill... ignorance is bliss. They can stay stuck in that Apple walled garden if they choose to and that's fine. They aren't interested in being anything other than consumers.

And the fact that the application manager in Maemo uses red and blue pills makes me think that someone in Nokia just might think the same way.
 
andy80's Avatar
andy80 is offline andy80
2009-08-14 , 19:56
Posts: 131 | Thanked: 150 times | Joined on Jan 2007 @ Pistoia, Italy
#37
Originally Posted by Reggie View Post
So, what would make regular developers develop for Maemo? Is the Maemo development environment too complicated? Is there room for web-based apps? Is an 'app store' needed? Should developers be allowed to sell their apps? Are developers more motivated to keep improving their apps if they can sell them? Paid apps equals better quality? Let's hear 'em.
I'll try to give my opinion.

- Maemo environment isn't too complicated.... is a hell
really don't know how that thing called Scratchbox can work :P
We would need to improve tools like ESBox, Pluthon ecc... and why not integrating QtCreator with Maemo?

There is not story comparing, for example, a well integrated environment like Android one and Maemo one.

- About web apps: there's always room for them. The key is: webservices and well written API we can call in a native way using our bindings an native UI. But companies have to provide those API: for example... is Nokia providing API to manage with OVI website?

- An AppStore would be great! I don't expect this for Fremantle, but they could do it for Harmattan... I think they have lot of time to do it. Giving the possibility to sell apps would mean to have more apps for our devices. Doesn't matter if open or not: if someone creates a commercial apps and community wanna write a free one, they're always free to do it.

- Definetly: developers should be allowed to sell their apps if they want. We cannot impose market rules.

No always payed apps means better quality. Usually well motivated developers write better apps than non motivated but payed developers. This is a fact.

I think we all can give a lot of ideas to Nokia, if they wanna listen to
 
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sachin007 is offline sachin007
2009-08-14 , 19:56
Posts: 2,041 | Thanked: 1,066 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Houston
#38
Originally Posted by nwerneck View Post
To make the development easier, one first suggestion is making emacs run as easily as is advertised in the tutorial!...

I would not like to see Maemo turn into the iPhone. I don't want DRMs and all that stuff. I want a GNU machine with one or two "proprietary binary blobs" here and there for convenience of our free lives in this proprietary world (that means flash support and device drivers). A Debian machine with the non-free repo added, just like my desktop machine is! If that turns down companies and developers who I don't like, such as Micros~1, I see that as a positive thing.

It's wrong to ask for more users and more developers before thinking about what applications we would like to see. I liked to hear from qgil that he likes the ocarina iphone application! I was looking for a project to start, and I do know something about signal processing and about ocarinas as well (my girlfriend even brought me one from Chile a few months ago). I am seriously considering to start a Maemo Ocarina application right now!

Myself, I haven't been missing anything. I would just like the hardware to be upgraded, and the current applications to keep being enhanced...

But I have a testimonial to give you. I get sad and then angry when all my iPhone-loving friends say that my N800 has nothing of special or interesting. They all come wanting to pinch my screen to see if the pictures will zoom, they laugh at the lack of animations while I browse through my albums... And if I show them something the NITs do that iPhones don't, thay say it's unimportant. Like, you know, MULTITASKING.

I get upset. But I have suffered this kind of prejudice all my life, and I'm quickly getting over it. No, I don't want to attract the iPhone developers, just as I don't want to attract "the average joe" to Linux.

See, using free software is a bit of an act of heroism. You don't ask people to be heroes, you just present them the situation and let them take the decision to act heroically. So I stopped trying to convince people to use Linux a long time ago, and I'm not going to try to convince people to buy Nokia's tablets.

I am sure this is very bad PR for Nokia. But that's not my problem! I will love to see more Linux based tablets coming. But if it's not economically viable, and Nokia gives up, that's just my bad luck. I am happy now with my N800. I would like to have another machine to make me happy in the future. But if Maemo turns into something similar to the iPhone, that won't make me happy anymore, and I'll just have to be looking for the next N800...

Back in the good old days some people would make the hardware, and some other would make the software. If Nokia puts itself as a hardware provider to me, and let me easily install mer or whatever, then we'll be friends for a long time. If they start to force me into the jailbreaking nonsense, I'm outta here.

I close up with a very popular poem:

Heartbeats they were racin'
Freedom he was chasin'
Spotlights, sirens, rifles firing
But he made it out
With a bullet in his back
Exactly my thoughts....

There is no reason for nokia to copy the iphone. I personally think no company can compete with apple in terms of advertising and fanboyism. The more nokia copies apple the less innovation there will be. I hope nokia just leaves the casual user and always think about the power user. I know it is commercially not viable to do that... so go on have a eye candy version of maemo ..... but never forget about innovation, open source and empowering the users.
 
ysss's Avatar
ysss is offline ysss
2009-08-14 , 19:56
Posts: 4,384 | Thanked: 5,524 times | Joined on Jul 2007 @ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
#39
You egocentric prics

There's a battlefield to be won out there. If you care about keeping the spirit of opensource and all that it stands alive, you'll have to think about how to get it mainstream where it CAN MAKE REAL CHANGES.
 
andy80's Avatar
andy80 is offline andy80
2009-08-14 , 19:58
Posts: 131 | Thanked: 150 times | Joined on Jan 2007 @ Pistoia, Italy
#40
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
From this point of view, a useful question is: what applications do you find interesting in other mobile platforms and you would like to see someone bringing to Maemo?

This is also a way to pass through the 'thousands of apps' noise barrier and see what is really cool but missing for Maemo users.

Looking athe list of such apps/features it is also easier to see whether such apps could fit in the known open source development model or if micropayments are required, or if it's about corporate marketing, online services etc etc.

Do you want to start that list? I can say I was impressed by the imagination and simple execution of the Ocarina when someone came one day blowing in an iPod Touch.
I suggest to create and maintain this list on the WIKI. It would be easier to find, read and to improve. If we write it here we risk to loose it after some time... what do you think about?
 

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