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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2010-01-29 , 14:22
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#31
Still I like CrashandDie's approach of bringing up examples.


This thread - why is it off topic in a Maemo forum? It discusses how people react when they see the N900.

This thread is about Maemo devices used in the community - off topic in a Maemo forum?

This one discusses false information spread by Nokia about a new Maemo update. Off topic?

This thread discusses a very real problem I observe in bugzilla - and even offers ideas for solutions. Totally off topic.

This thread improved my personal user experience with the N900 because it showed me how to add an icon for it on the desktop when connected via USB. Off topic.

This thread discusses Android vs. Maemo. Given this is a Maemo forum with a competitors section - off topic?

In this thread a community member asks about the legal situation of the maemo.org-logo, who holds the rights etc. - we have a "community" section, but this is off topic.

....

None of these threads has "derailed" into discussions of either male or female genitals. They didn't mention Hitler (I just had to) and never touched religious topics.
 

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Flandry is offline Flandry
2010-01-29 , 14:30
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#32
Mods aren't infallible nor omniscient. One thing to do in the case that a thread is obviously miscategorized is to use the "report" feature to point it out to a mod. Make a concise statement of why you feel it belongs elsewhere.
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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2010-01-29 , 14:32
Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,222 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#33
Originally Posted by NvyUs View Post
we all wanted more moderators so we got them.
Now we are in a position where they all seem to pulling in different directions with no consistant guidelines to follow, so we've got a Moderate as you please situation.
Different? They seem to be pulling pretty cohesively to me. Some just more than others. . . .
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-01-29 , 14:51
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#34
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
Different? They seem to be pulling pretty cohesively to me. Some just more than others. . . .
I see the opposite. But I don't want to go into that too much here.

The way I see it, there are 3 main factors to consider, in no particular order:

- goal of the site
- ideals and principles of the forum administrator
- wishes of the members

I won't go into the goal of the site. But my understanding of the admin, Reggie, is that he is mostly hands-off and I like that. I wish I could do a better job myself of not plunging into controversial subjects here. Even though I see a need for a *little* more moderation than we had to use in the past, I want to defer back to his approach. If we have to err, err to laissez-faire.

As for members... they want it both ways. They want a forum that's easy to navigate, free of clutter, but they want to gab too. That's human nature. Some of the opinions expressed on this subject try too hard to fight human nature... advocating a robotic adherence to the letter of the law, ignoring the spirit of the issue.

We do need clearer guidelines, and that subject is under discussion amongst moderator staff, but at the same time I'd like to see an overall exercise of compassionate judgment. Err to the side of tolerance. Don't delete threads simply because you're looking for "tidyness". That screws up the flow of a conversation. It also angers people to the point that they often respond with MORE noise (beware the Law of Unintended Consequences). I can tell you I wasn't happy at all to see some of my posts deleted recently because I felt it to be unnecessary. Deletion also erases history.

I also wish my fellow moderators will take context into account when deciding where a thread goes or stays. That includes the overall tenor and purpose of a thread.

I've said enough, and appear to be in the minority amongst the leadership here, so I'll shut up now. But I will say I simply can't and won't be a moderator if we are destined (as some would have it) to create a stifling, anal retentive atmosphere. That goes against my personality and principles.
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Last edited by Texrat; 2010-01-29 at 15:12.
 

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CrashandDie is offline CrashandDie
2010-01-29 , 15:07
Posts: 336 | Thanked: 610 times | Joined on Apr 2008 @ France
#35
Benny,

I'm not a supermoderator, so I can't trace the history of all those threads you've shown in example. However, I believe Kathy posted in off-topic directly, nobody moved her thread there (please do correct me if I'm wrong).

lcuk's thread regarding the fake bug report is a farce. I'll just quote GA from that same thread:
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
I gotta say, lcuk, I'm not terribly impressed with this thread. The attempt at humor belies the seriousness of the issue, and it feels somewhat disingenuous to me to not point to the source (especially on Talk).*
This is the only serious post in the whole thread. The rest is just joke, after joke, after joke. And guess what, none of them are on topic, and none of them seem to take the issue seriously. At least you're right on that one: totally off-topic.

Regarding the n900 criticism thread, there have been billions of them, and most useful contributions have already been made... And before you praise a thread, let's just go down to the first page... and we see this beauty:
Originally Posted by maxximuscool View Post
lol yeah. but most people who criticising N900 are stupid because they have never use Linux before. LINUX IS FUN! AND frustrate at the same time if you don't jnow what you are doing.
Yup, we've definitely lost a lot of intelligence by binning that one into off-topic. However, regardless of my opinion about the thread -- something every mod attempts to do by the way, if it wasn't obvious -- this might actually be a good post for General. Having an initiative to consolidate constructive criticism would definitely be a good thing. But then again... that post was from any effort in that sense.

About the poll regarding who owns what... I'm sorry, have you even read it? How does it contribute anything useful? The only thing people do is *say exactly what they just voted for in the poll*.

I'm sure I could keep going, but we're just going to alienate half the world if we keep going like this. I honestly believe we've both made our point, and as you brilliantly said before, I want an office, you want a pub. We know we can't have the same thing, now let's just try to find a consensus.

I'll inspire myself from texrat's conflict resolution skills and simply withdraw from this thread. I don't believe pouring more oil on the fire will help anything, so I'll just let others take point.
 

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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-01-29 , 15:16
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#36
Originally Posted by CrashandDie View Post
lcuk's thread regarding the fake bug report is a farce. I'll just quote GA from that same thread:


This is the only serious post in the whole thread. The rest is just joke, after joke, after joke. And guess what, none of them are on topic, and none of them seem to take the issue seriously. At least you're right on that one: totally off-topic.
I still don't understand why bug reporting is considered so sacred by some that it's not to be touched by a little tongue-in-cheek humor.

Sorry, guys, it's certainly Serious Business to report and manage bugs but I see nothing at all wrong with an Off Topic thread making light of a user's faux pas.

Maybe we should hang a shingle here:

No Fun Aloud (pun intended)

The robot contingent would rejoice I'm sure.

EDIT: my apologies to CrashandDie. I thought he was in tacit agreement with another comment in lcuk's thread, but he says otherwise. Sorry about that.
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Last edited by Texrat; 2010-01-29 at 15:37.
 
fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-01-29 , 15:20
Posts: 3,428 | Thanked: 2,856 times | Joined on Jul 2008
#37
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Sorry, guys, it's certainly Serious Business to report and manage bugs but I see nothing at all wrong with an Off Topic thread making light of a user's faux pas.
That was kind of the point (i think)... benny was advocating it not be in off-topic. An entire tongue-in-cheek thread like that, probably* should be.

For everything else I'm on your side....

*I'm not too concerned about whether the content of the post is contributory or humorous... if the post is about the N900 or Maemo, regardless if it's a stupid post or not, it belongs in N900 or Maemo. If it's about Kate Beckinsale being the hottest chick alive... that is off-topic.

ETA: But I'm mostly a nobody... so I'll just continue to be thanking posts I like.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-01-29 , 15:22
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#38
Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
That was kind of the point (i think)... benny was advocating it not be in off-topic. An entire tongue-in-cheek thread like that, probably* should be.
I was just commenting on the expression by some that even joking about bug reporting was inappropriate. It was an aside, but now I'm understanding I should not have used CrashandDie's quote to make the point. My bad.

Amazing how easily misunderstandings occur in a forum...
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Last edited by Texrat; 2010-01-29 at 15:39.
 

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CrashandDie is offline CrashandDie
2010-01-29 , 15:24
Posts: 336 | Thanked: 610 times | Joined on Apr 2008 @ France
#39
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
to report and manage bugs but I see nothing at all wrong with an Off Topic thread making light of a user's faux pas.

Maybe we should hang a shingle here:

No Fun Aloud
And I have no issue with people making a fun thread in the off-topic forum, just don't blame moderators for being uptight because "it's useful and would be better in another forum", which is exactly what Benny did in his last post.
 
sjgadsby is offline sjgadsby
2010-01-29 , 15:27
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#40
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post

This thread - why is it off topic in a Maemo forum?
Thread was created in Off-Topic. I cannot keep up with all the threads created in the wrong place, and "cleaning" Off-Topic has not been a priority for me.

This thread is about Maemo devices used in the community - off topic in a Maemo forum?
Another thread that was created in Off-Topic.

This one discusses false information spread by Nokia about a new Maemo update. Off topic?
My fault. Initially, the problem appeared to be solely for those who previously had other, non-Maemo Nokia devices and didn't update the Nokia service to reflect they no longer used that old phone. Oh, and the service was reported to not even apply to Maemo devices.

In the past, there's been vocal protest of people putting Symbian-focused discussion in "General". The demand was that such threads be "Off-Topic". As this Nokia service appeared to be only for Symbian devices, not Maemo, I moved it to Off-Topic.

Recent updates to the thread include people reporting the receipt of these notifications even though they've never had a Nokia phone before. Given that, I probably should have moved the thread back out of "Off-Topic", but I found the issue murky, I don't like bouncing threads back and forth, and I decided to wait a bit to see if more information on exactly what's happening might be forthcoming.

This thread discusses a very real problem I observe in bugzilla - and even offers ideas for solutions. Totally off topic.
Another thread that was created in Off-Topic.

This thread improved my personal user experience with the N900 because it showed me how to add an icon for it on the desktop when connected via USB. Off topic.
Another thread that was created in Off-Topic.

This thread discusses Android vs. Maemo. Given this is a Maemo forum with a competitors section - off topic?
This thread was moved, though not by me. I haven't read the thread, so I cannot comment.

In this thread a community member asks about the legal situation of the maemo.org-logo, who holds the rights etc. - we have a "community" section, but this is off topic.
Another thread that was created in Off-Topic.

None of these threads has "derailed" into discussions of either male or female genitals. They didn't mention Hitler (I just had to) and never touched religious topics.
I do what I can, but these forums have become very active. I have not seen any requests via "Report This" to have these threads moved to other forums. A number of these threads I've never even seen before. There's too many now for me to read all of them. If you've the time to read the threads and find their miscategorizations, would you please consider taking the time to use "Report This" to notify the mods about them?
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Last edited by sjgadsby; 2010-01-29 at 18:48. Reason: adding missing word, shortening post
 

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