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2010-02-19
, 04:37
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Posts: 3,105 |
Thanked: 11,088 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#32
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Originally Posted by penguinbait
Alright, this would mean that aside of the bugzilla karma, wiki karma, git karma and whatnot karma you would have a pure "community karma" based on votes received from your peers.
Everyone earns some amounts of Karma regularly, but they can only give them to others.
Looks like something in the lines of http://drupal.org/project/user_karma
Again, that would be another interesting and concrete metric: community appreciation.
What I still don't see at all is the usefulness of an absolute karma value targeted, explicitely or not, to get new devices in special conditions.
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2010-02-19
, 04:39
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#33
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Originally Posted by qgil
I don't see anyone in THIS thread pushing for that...
What I still don't see at all is the usefulness of an absolute karma value targeted, explicitely or not, to get new devices in special conditions.
EDIT
Originally Posted by qgil
We have that, to an extent, with karma from Thanks.
Again, that would be another interesting and concrete metric: community appreciation.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2010-02-19
, 04:52
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Posts: 3,105 |
Thanked: 11,088 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#34
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Originally Posted by Texrat
I'm not saying that karma promoters push that idea. I'm only saying that chances are that a strong focus on karma leads to this uncomfortable, distorting and sometimes childish side effect. I have seen it more often than wished in maemo.org and I wouldn't feel proud if These patterns show up in MeeGo around "our" concept of karma.
I don't see anyone in THIS thread pushing for that...
EDIT
We have that, to an extent, with karma from Thanks.
And I think it's unavoidable. Whatever elements brought this side effect to maemo.org are only multiplied in MeeGo.
PS: Thanks buttons reward forum contributors. There is no thanks button in e.g. Bugzilla.
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2010-02-19
, 04:52
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#35
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Sorry for posting so much but this is a subject I have strong feelings about and I'm close to going to bed anyway so you can do without me a while. 
First let's talk more about karma normalization.
Currently we have various formulae that attempt to find balance between various activities. I've said before and will say again that's an admirable goal but one I now believe to be flawed and more work than it's worth.
When I made those points recently someone tried to equate karma to the real world and claimed it failed. I believe that sentiment was also flawed and here's why.
In real life we are paid based on various factors, chief among them what some entity deems the labor to be worth (per region). No one involved in this human value benchmarking seems overly concerned with how much a dogcatcher makes compared to an investment banker. Instead, they rationalize the pay solely on the merits of the labor and its perceived return to the payee.
No one charges the dogcatcher any less for a hamburger at the deli. He pays the same as the banker.
I think we should look at karma the same way. Rationalize it within the sphere of the activity itself, and then be done with it. We could look at it in terms of ratio: effort expended to perceived return. That should actually work out in the long run-- assuming simple and sane formulae can be determined.
This is the sort of normalization I would prefer.
Last edited by Texrat; 2010-02-19 at 04:55.
First let's talk more about karma normalization.
Currently we have various formulae that attempt to find balance between various activities. I've said before and will say again that's an admirable goal but one I now believe to be flawed and more work than it's worth.
When I made those points recently someone tried to equate karma to the real world and claimed it failed. I believe that sentiment was also flawed and here's why.
In real life we are paid based on various factors, chief among them what some entity deems the labor to be worth (per region). No one involved in this human value benchmarking seems overly concerned with how much a dogcatcher makes compared to an investment banker. Instead, they rationalize the pay solely on the merits of the labor and its perceived return to the payee.
No one charges the dogcatcher any less for a hamburger at the deli. He pays the same as the banker.
I think we should look at karma the same way. Rationalize it within the sphere of the activity itself, and then be done with it. We could look at it in terms of ratio: effort expended to perceived return. That should actually work out in the long run-- assuming simple and sane formulae can be determined.
This is the sort of normalization I would prefer.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Last edited by Texrat; 2010-02-19 at 04:55.
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2010-02-19
, 04:53
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#36
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Originally Posted by qgil
Understood. I was not suggesting that Thanks is the only answer, just commenting.
PS: Thanks buttons reward forum contributors. There is no thanks button in e.g. Bugzilla.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2010-02-19
, 05:05
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Posts: 3,105 |
Thanked: 11,088 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#37
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In real life, paid job is one of the activities of the day. It is already complicated to abstract and compare the value of the work of a teacher and a bus driver. But true, you can compare salaries at the end.
But at least nobody (I'm aware of) attempts to create an overall social karma metric that evaluates my citizen value based on my work... plus my family activities plus my computer hobbies plus my sport performance...
And this is exactly my point against a unique karma rank like the one shown at http://maemo.org/profile%20/list/ - note that the sublists on the right are actually much more illustrative in its own context.
But at least nobody (I'm aware of) attempts to create an overall social karma metric that evaluates my citizen value based on my work... plus my family activities plus my computer hobbies plus my sport performance...
And this is exactly my point against a unique karma rank like the one shown at http://maemo.org/profile%20/list/ - note that the sublists on the right are actually much more illustrative in its own context.
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2010-02-19
, 05:08
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#38
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I'm not talking at all about a "citizen value". And I was actually trying to get away from "comparing salaries". But maybe I tried so hard to be objective and soar at the 10,000 foot level that my meaning is unclear. 
Anyway my brain is tired from battling software issues at work all day so it's time for me to leave the debating to others more able. I appear to be coming up short.
EDIT: and Quim-- I hope you understand you have a built-in pent-up karma offering just for showing up. That's not meant to diminish your high score and ratio (
) but just putting it into perspective.
Last edited by Texrat; 2010-02-19 at 05:12.
Anyway my brain is tired from battling software issues at work all day so it's time for me to leave the debating to others more able. I appear to be coming up short.
EDIT: and Quim-- I hope you understand you have a built-in pent-up karma offering just for showing up. That's not meant to diminish your high score and ratio (
) but just putting it into perspective.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Last edited by Texrat; 2010-02-19 at 05:12.
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2010-02-19
, 05:22
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#39
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Originally Posted by qgil
Let's not then? Let's translate the existing maemo.org karma interface, but only give raw numbers. Instead of assigning a certain value to each individual item, let's just throw the numbers up there for the overview. How many bugs have you filed? How many posts have you made? etc.
But... what is the point of mixing all these stats, in a single and quite arbitrary value? Please answer.
We still have the top lists for each category, but no overall number. Comparisons within each category are generally pretty valid but if we make no attempt to assign value to each type of contribution then much of the contention goes out the window.
__________________
Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2010-02-19
, 05:33
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Posts: 1,885 |
Thanked: 2,008 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ OVI MAPS
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#40
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would it not be better to keep forum karma separate from other kinds use it towards a forum rank system instead, like 1000 karma gets meego general status or whatever.
if theres any developer programs just say top X amount qualify from forum and look at any special cases that may be deserving too but the majority go to the other part of the site where karma is really deserved.
maemo.org talk karma is over inflated and makes up too much of the overall, look at me for example already have over 200 from T.M.O which would of qualified me for last device discount program even though i'm undeserving.
Last edited by NvyUs; 2010-02-19 at 05:54.
if theres any developer programs just say top X amount qualify from forum and look at any special cases that may be deserving too but the majority go to the other part of the site where karma is really deserved.
maemo.org talk karma is over inflated and makes up too much of the overall, look at me for example already have over 200 from T.M.O which would of qualified me for last device discount program even though i'm undeserving.
Last edited by NvyUs; 2010-02-19 at 05:54.
I understand the teeth-gritting over childishness and wish there was an easy answer. This community has been a victim of its own popularity and with that comes a broad spectrum of participants, mature and immature. There is no simple solution to that. But I think overall competition is good.
Mixing (Normalizing) stats becomes necessary IMO for cross-functional people, or those who steadily grow into higher responsibilities. But maybe you have an answer already for that?
Zero recognition will come with its own problems, so I doubt anyone is advocating that extreme. But no matter what yardstick is used, or how its divided, we have to take the bad wth the good. Best we can do is try to minimize the bad.
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net