Originally Posted by un-named_user

I'll genuinely give you the effort Texrat I've seen you put in here and at Meego forums. I also can see the Python support thing that the Council brought up recently as a good thing.

But I always have wanted to see visible posts by the council bringing up other issues, didn't matter if Nokia screwed us or played ignorant as usual. Put it up on the forums as it is, for I want to know where to place my anger(I'm kidding I know its Nokia ). Doing anything behind closed doors is kinda pointless when the Council is supposedly so for the people.

The MyNokia debacle, the Council's stand and Nokia's handling of the whole issue however makes me realize one thing.

At the end of the day, the Council is for the most part not capable of delivering the mission statement it has on the wiki page.



Because, Nokia does not use the Council as a conduit for passing relevant information and they seemingly ignore for the most part whatever the Council (claims) to inform them of.

To me, a simple end user. You are 5 respected people(once in a while to the point of looking like Nokia fanboys or apologists ) who genuinely have a passion for the platform and the better interests of the general community in mind.

But, the Council.. I really honestly don't care about, though simply because I haven't seen "Nokia" care for it or its opinions & you all would still be doing the same thing as 5 individuals and getting similar results.. a few good things in between the whole horse crap that Nokia's commitment to either the Maemo 5 or the N900 or its current users is.

Originally Posted by joerg_rw

let's start a thread "would anybody miss silvermountain and his pointless rant?"

tmo, sigh!
/j

Originally Posted by Texrat

Thank you for your input, and I won't go into the quibbles.

But I do want to touch on something Jaffa said in another thread:

Did anyone complain when previous councils worked to get community members sponsored to previous summits?

Originally Posted by Texrat

Did anyone complain when council members worked to get devices into the hands of developers?

Originally Posted by Texrat

Do you think the people I picked to go to Santa Clara (at Nokia's request) a while back complained? Should the community have complained?

Originally Posted by Texrat

Those were success stories, guys. And I can find several for every single allegation of council ineffectiveness, incompetence, etc.

Originally Posted by Texrat

But some here continue to confuse undesired or failed results with inactivity by the council. Sorry, but that's just nuts. It's not even ineffectivity or incompetence.

Originally Posted by Texrat

It's just a damned shame more of that input is occurring tonight than has in the entire year up to now. And no, that is not entirely the fault of the council. The community has ongoing obligations, too. "Fire and forget" should not be a mode of voting.

Originally Posted by joerg_rw

let's start a thread "would anybody miss silvermountain and his pointless rant?"

tmo, sigh!
/j

Originally Posted by Texrat

Thanks for your question. There are certainly pros and cons to what you propose. I can't help but be keenly aware of the cons, though.

Plenty of fighting/complaining/venting occurs here, publicly, already. Council members even participate. Hell, me, too much.

At some point we need to decide what battles make sense in broad daylight, and which ones to fight in the dark sewers. Public noise is good for initial attention-getting-- but often the solutions must be found in quieter zones. Too much harsh light of scrutiny, and your combatant might well retreat. We have to stay cognizant of that. Nokia sure is.

That said, my personal preference is do do everything out in the open. I have just found that sometimes process breaks down when all of it is public. So we have a council channel where we will discuss issues, inform each other, try to come to consensus. We could not accomplish that in every case in completely public channels. Noise interferes.

Now, these are just my thoughts. I am hoping the rest of the council will chime in. I am also interested in your rebuttals.

Thanks again for focusing the dialog.

EDIT:

I want to add something in general.

This is the most council entreaty I've seen in some time. I can say with personal disappointment that there are numerous, numerous council-related posts, tweets and emails that have been met with little or no response from the community. Ironic, given this thread.

So tonight's engagement, while largely contentious, has also been good if I'm going to be strictly objective.

Thank you to all participants. I mean that.

Originally Posted by Texrat

silvermountain, you're right back to choosing confrontation over constructive dialog. Let me know if/when you throttle back from attack mode and actually want to discuss the subject honestly, seriously and without malice. I will gladly do the same.

Originally Posted by Bijiont

I see your point and it's a hard situation to be in. As you make more things public overall control is lost.

However the same is true about keeping things behind closed doors you cut off outside communication to the community.

Something which comes to mind to help this issue would be to expand the current concil members from 5 to maybe 8 or 10. I honestly don't know much details about the concil however it sounds to me that the current concil members are either overworked or not getting results. I am not blaming just stating from what I have heard here.

This is a hard thing to deal with in any situation however it's very common among IT industry such as Service Desks and also Operational Control positions. Anyone who has done ITIL will know what I mean by those terms.

There is no clear sign that a council will happen for MeeGo. There is no clear sign one will be needed/wanted for Maemo going forward.