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wmarone	2010-12-07 , 22:02
Posts: 1,746 \| Thanked: 2,100 times \| Joined on Sep 2009	#31

Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt

Chrome OS is an appliance and like many appliances, it's not intended to be opened, just used. The tradeoff you generally make for simplicity is control.

And therein lies the problem. The biggest bane for companies these days is that users have control, which gives rise to everything we have today.

Sure you can buy wire and transformers, acquire cinderblocks and metal grating and make a stove that you have 100% control over. But most people don't do that, they use a pre-packaged unit built by Samsung or Maytag that does its job well with little headache.

Right, but my stove does little more than get hot in a controlled manner. Computers do way, way more and are much more a part of our lives.

This is no different and will revolutionize the way that computers are used.

I foresee it more as undoing the potential that computers have given us over the last ~30 years. Putting users back in the box, but without taking the conduit via which you can consume, advertise and spend. If it does revolutionize the way computers are used, like Apple believes the iPhone and iPad will, then it will be a step backwards unless the user can opt to do things locally.

Otherwise, people certainly won't have the chances to learn about computers and technology that I have had.

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	Capt'n Corrupt	2010-12-07 , 22:56
	Posts: 3,524 \| Thanked: 2,958 times \| Joined on Oct 2007 @ Delta Quadrant	#32

Originally Posted by wmarone

And therein lies the problem. The biggest bane for companies these days is that users have control, which gives rise to everything we have today.

So we agree that Chrome OS changes very little in that regard.

Originally Posted by wmarone

Right, but my stove does little more than get hot in a controlled manner. Computers do way, way more and are much more a part of our lives.

So? Since when does some subjective metric of complexity of use-case exclude an item from being an appliance? As I understand it, an appliance is easy to use -- and no, I don't want to get into an argument over definitions.

Originally Posted by wmarone

I foresee it more as undoing the potential that computers have given us over the last ~30 years. Putting users back in the box, but without taking the conduit via which you can consume, advertise and spend. If it does revolutionize the way computers are used, like Apple believes the iPhone and iPad will, then it will be a step backwards unless the user can opt to do things locally

An absolute viewpoint that assumes that Chrome OS will replace *all* computers. This isn't the case by a long shot.

Originally Posted by wmarone

Otherwise, people certainly won't have the chances to learn about computers and technology that I have had.

Yet the internet remains a tremendous source for increased productivity especially in the field of learning. I remember similar arguments against C++ taking thunder from Assembler -- in otherwords with this increased abstraction of underlying metal, people would lose the complex understanding of the system. Ironically it seems that many more computer science concepts can be realistically reached from high-level languages like C++ and the door has been opened for many users due to the decreased cost of entry.

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wmarone	2010-12-07 , 23:13
Posts: 1,746 \| Thanked: 2,100 times \| Joined on Sep 2009	#33

Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt

So we agree that Chrome OS changes very little in that regard.

Well no, it puts the user in a position of dependence on the vendor. Which appears to be the goal.

So? Since when does some subjective metric of complexity of use-case exclude an item from being an appliance?

My point is that it's a negative to reduce a computer to the level of the TV.

An absolute viewpoint that assumes that Chrome OS will replace *all* computers. This isn't the case by a long shot.

Not all, by any means, but it'll make hardware you can do as you will with much more expensive.

Yet the internet remains a tremendous source for increased productivity especially in the field of learning. I remember similar arguments against C++ taking thunder from Assembler

Which were at best poor arguments. This isn't about abstraction obscuring things (especially when the abstraction can be trivially pierced) but about controlling the view port completely.

Ironically it seems that many more computer science concepts can be realistically reached from high-level languages like C++ and the door has been opened for many users due to the decreased cost of entry.

Yet to me this appears to significantly raise the cost of entry, since the platforms will inevitably be delivered in a locked down fashion that you have to either fight your way out from under.

I guess I just can't be as optimistic about the notion of going from an actual computer to what is essentially a dumb terminal that runs a web browser instead of a terminal emulator.

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	Capt'n Corrupt	2010-12-07 , 23:45
	Posts: 3,524 \| Thanked: 2,958 times \| Joined on Oct 2007 @ Delta Quadrant	#34

I disagree that its negative to reduce the computer to the level of a TV. But this is a subjective argument and I'll spare you my perspective for want of this argument to end.

I understand that you're not optimistic, but you don't have to be. ChromeOS is for the layperson who's been living behind a closed wall since they first touched computers, and are living behind it still. Engineers, DIYers, etc, use specialized tools -- this will not likely change.

I also don't believe that open is going to go away. You can bet that open projects like Apache and Mozilla will draw their resources to building new solutions off of this paradigm and have competing projects.

I don't believe that computing cost is going to skyrocket, though the types of computers that we use will likely change. But this happened with the desktop-notebook switch, and is happening more and more with tablets and smartphones.

I'll say this again: I don't believe that Chrome OS will be the be-all-end-all OS that everybody will use. I expect that it will be a popular product and that popularity will increase in time changing that way that computing is generally done. I believe there will continue to be competition, innovation, and openness as we learn to be more productive.

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	Capt'n Corrupt	2010-12-07 , 23:46
	Posts: 3,524 \| Thanked: 2,958 times \| Joined on Oct 2007 @ Delta Quadrant	#35

I just want to say that I do enjoy conversing with you, but I find I have little desire to argue these days. Please don't take my comment as a slight.

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mobiledivide	2010-12-08 , 06:51
Posts: 751 \| Thanked: 522 times \| Joined on Mar 2007 @ East Gowanus	#36

This might be the wrong thread to ask this in, but is there any update on chromium browser for N900? It seems like the last update was months ago. Some of those Apps like the NYTimes reader look pretty good.

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railroadmaster	2010-12-09 , 05:22
Posts: 1,082 \| Thanked: 1,235 times \| Joined on Apr 2010	#37

Why are people hating on Chrome OS if you don't like it, don't use it. I'm personally loving the experience with the Ubuntu Netbook remix. I like being able to code, install 3rd party applications, edit video, audio, images, but most people could care. Anyways most people just care about accessing their facebook and well Chrome os caters to that.

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	Capt'n Corrupt	2010-12-09 , 13:27
	Posts: 3,524 \| Thanked: 2,958 times \| Joined on Oct 2007 @ Delta Quadrant	#38

What's very interesting about the Chrome OS model is that it leaves the doors wide open for competition.

I fully expect companies like Canonical (Ubunutu), Apple (OSX), and Microsoft (Windows) to have similar offerings on their OSs. What would be an interesting twist if these companies offered a mix of online *and* offline applications.

Also, there are likely to be many more online web-app stores. I can see Amazon getting into this game as well as new startups.

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	Capt'n Corrupt	2010-12-09 , 13:29
	Posts: 3,524 \| Thanked: 2,958 times \| Joined on Oct 2007 @ Delta Quadrant	#39

Originally Posted by mobiledivide

This might be the wrong thread to ask this in, but is there any update on chromium browser for N900? It seems like the last update was months ago. Some of those Apps like the NYTimes reader look pretty good.

I would reply if I could, my friend, but I don't know. I'm impressed that there was/is even a port of Chromium for the N900!

Google has begun work on an ARM variant of Chrome, so I suspect that future porting will be a great deal easier.

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wmarone	2010-12-09 , 17:03
Posts: 1,746 \| Thanked: 2,100 times \| Joined on Sep 2009	#40

Originally Posted by railroadmaster

Why are people hating on Chrome OS if you don't like it, don't use it.

Because we have opinions that differ from yours. I'll criticize something whose initial presentation explicitly states "no root for you." It should be an option, always, even if it's not easy to access. Yet it almost never is, except on hard to get devices. And here it is spreading into the netbook space.