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2011-09-15
, 09:31
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Posts: 196 |
Thanked: 224 times |
Joined on Sep 2010
@ Africa
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#32
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Originally Posted by momcilo
In *some* countries.
This is controlled through contract.
You are still obliged to pay.
Locking a phone to a particular SIM is a form of monopoly.
BTW: they don't need to lock up the phone itself for SIM enforcement. It is enough to use the GSM module for that purpose.
I don't believe somebody else should decide what is run/played on my device.
I don't want a mainstream device.
I would accept a device which *can*, but doesn't always need to, enforce "platform security", in order to be competitive in certain restrictive markets which have a huge influence on device adoption, *if* I have the choice to disable the platform security.
Again, this is not a technical issue. If you don't like the fact that your operator only provides sim-locked devices (note, this is check done before checking if open mode is allowed, so no unlocked phone can be prevented from being used in open mode), then I fail to see why you use this operator.
If your country allows all operators to sim-lock all phones forever, well, I think you have bigger problems ...
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2011-09-15
, 09:34
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Posts: 196 |
Thanked: 224 times |
Joined on Sep 2010
@ Africa
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#33
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Originally Posted by momcilo
if your phone is sim-locked and your operator has prevented open-mode. If you have a non-sim-locked phone, or if your operator allows open mode, you can use an unsigned kernel.
The most obvious implication of the diagram from the presentation I've posted is that it is not possible to effectivly use kernel that is not signed by nokia.
Even the bootloader is verified.
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2011-09-15
, 09:38
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Posts: 673 |
Thanked: 856 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
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#34
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Originally Posted by Stskeeps
Thanks for clearing that part: custom kernels can run under "Open Mode".
Nah, you got your timelines mixed up. MeeGo 1.2 release came after Feb11.
Anyway.
For freedom lovers, if:
* SIM lock isn't active
* Security lock isn't active (you know, pincode, protecting data)
* Developer mode is active (i'm a little unsure if this is even required)
You can flash your own kernel and rootfs without aegis. We have MeeGo CE running with phonecalls, etc.
Do you know if the Service Providers will be able to disable Open Mode (Development Mode)? Diagram suggests that as possibility, and that is important for people obtaining N9s through contract.
__________________
http://gpl-violations.org/faq/violation-faq.html
http://gpl-violations.org/faq/violation-faq.html
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2011-09-15
, 09:42
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#35
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Originally Posted by momcilo
If you obtain a device through contract, the terms and conditions of it's usage is through that contract. Usually they'll do this through SIM lock.
Thanks for clearing that part: custom kernels can run under "Open Mode".
Do you know if the Service Providers will be able to disable Open Mode (Development Mode)? Diagram suggests that as possibility, and that is important for people obtaining N9s through contract.
If you want full freedom, pay for the whole thing at once. It's often cheaper to get a temporary loan with the bank anyway and/or set aside money.
__________________
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
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2011-09-15
, 09:49
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Posts: 196 |
Thanked: 224 times |
Joined on Sep 2010
@ Africa
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#36
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Originally Posted by momcilo
If it is a subsidised phone, with the subsidy given on the basis of additional revenue that the operator will derive from your (restricted) use of the device (e.g. billable communication, licensed media etc.), then it is not your device.
I don't believe somebody else should decide what is run/played on my device.
If you have a device which is not subsidised in any way (but your plan covers the full cost of the device), then the operator should be obliged to allow you to unlock your device.
if the operator is *not* obliged to unlock *your* device, once again, the technical implementation is not your problem, your problem is that your government supports big companies dictating how you use communication devices. The solution to this is not technical (as the companies will simply use other means to prevent you using a device that doesn't have the technical means to support their business model). Unfortunately, technical solutions that allow them to do this already exist, and you can't change that.
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2011-09-15
, 09:50
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Posts: 673 |
Thanked: 856 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
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#37
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Originally Posted by buchanmilne
In short yes, anything other is quite invasive.
So no modern phones subsidised by contracts are able to make phone calls (which is where the operator is hoping to recover their subsidy) via any means but GSM?
Originally Posted by buchanmilne
From whom? As a "consumer" we have to state the features we are interested in. Hopefully someone will address those needs.
Then buy your device from someone who allows you that freedom.
Originally Posted by buchanmilne
My Neo works fine thank you.
Then stay with your N900 or Neo.
Hopefully GTA04 boards will be available.
Originally Posted by buchanmilne
I am not talking about the choice of informed buyer. I am talking about the majority of posters at N9 thread, who will buy the device without checking if it can be run in Open Mode.
I would accept a device which *can*, but doesn't always need to, enforce "platform security", in order to be competitive in certain restrictive markets which have a huge influence on device adoption, *if* I have the choice to disable the platform security.
Again, this is not a technical issue. If you don't like the fact that your operator only provides sim-locked devices (note, this is check done before checking if open mode is allowed, so no unlocked phone can be prevented from being used in open mode), then I fail to see why you use this operator.
Originally Posted by buchanmilne
In short yes.
If your country allows all operators to sim-lock all phones forever, well, I think you have bigger problems ...
__________________
http://gpl-violations.org/faq/violation-faq.html
http://gpl-violations.org/faq/violation-faq.html
Last edited by momcilo; 2011-09-15 at 09:59.
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2011-09-15
, 09:54
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Posts: 673 |
Thanked: 856 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
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#38
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Originally Posted by Stskeeps
Is there any quick way of checking if Open Mode is disabled on device while running Harmattan?
If you obtain a device through contract, the terms and conditions of it's usage is through that contract. Usually they'll do this through SIM lock.
If you want full freedom, pay for the whole thing at once. It's often cheaper to get a temporary loan with the bank anyway and/or set aside money.
__________________
http://gpl-violations.org/faq/violation-faq.html
http://gpl-violations.org/faq/violation-faq.html
Last edited by momcilo; 2011-09-15 at 09:59.
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2011-09-15
, 10:03
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#39
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Originally Posted by momcilo
No clue, sorry. SIM lock is more likely to be it though.
Is there any quick way of checking if Open Mode is disabled on device while running Harmattan?
__________________
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
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2011-09-21
, 11:33
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Posts: 48 |
Thanked: 80 times |
Joined on Aug 2011
@ France
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#40
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We know Harmattan is a MeeGo by Nokia, so maybe less open and hackable but this won't change anything for me, I'll use the N9 because there's no better device actually. What about the N900 platform security, how does it works?
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| Tags |
| locked boot, neutered, trecherous |
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All times are GMT. The time now is 14:19.
Anyway.
For freedom lovers, if:
* SIM lock isn't active
* Security lock isn't active (you know, pincode, protecting data)
* Developer mode is active (i'm a little unsure if this is even required)
You can flash your own kernel and rootfs without aegis. We have MeeGo CE running with phonecalls, etc.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.