Why pentile? - N9 AMOLED screen comparison (i8910, GS, GS2, N900, droid, E7). Color performance pentile vs rgb - Page 4 - maemo.org

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specc	2012-12-18 , 18:45
Posts: 322 \| Thanked: 218 times \| Joined on Feb 2012	#31

Some sorry souls also see pink/green flickering on plasma screens

LOL I'm glad I'm not one of them

Pentile is cool. It's much better than people give it credit for. The 3.9 inch screen on the N9 is actually has almost as high PPI as the SGSIII screen.

Another thing. A 480 x 800 RGB has 480 x 800 addressable pixels (each full RGB pixel). A 480 x 800 pentile has 960 x 800 addressable pixels (each sub pixel). Even though a pentile screen has lower sub pixel count and thus lower "real" PPI, this is offset to a large degree by adaptive sub pixel rendering.

As screen technology becomes cheaper and PPI count higher, everything will be pentile (or similar) in the end due to reduced production cost.

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	javispedro	2012-12-18 , 18:57
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Originally Posted by specc

Another thing. A 480 x 800 RGB has 480 x 800 addressable pixels (each full RGB pixel). A 480 x 800 pentile has 960 x 800 addressable pixels (each sub pixel). Even though a pentile screen has lower sub pixel count and thus lower "real" PPI, this is offset to a large degree by adaptive sub pixel rendering..

Actually... A 480x800 RGB has 480x800x3 addressable subpixels. A 480x800 pentile has too 480x800x3 adressable subpixels, but the controller mangles those into 480x800x2 subpixels.

Aka Pentile RGBG actually has 2/3 the amount of subpixels, no matter how you look at it.
Subpixel rendering is not only also present in the RGB layout, but is also _easier_ to do.

And just google around for 'pentile yellow pink' or 'pentile checkerboard' to see how many people detect PenTile's artifacts. Specially at a (by today's standards) very low resolution handheld such as the N9.

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specc	2012-12-18 , 19:02
Posts: 322 \| Thanked: 218 times \| Joined on Feb 2012	#33

Originally Posted by javispedro

Actually... A 480x800 RGB has 480x800x3 addressable subpixels. A 480x800 pentile has too 480x800x3 adressable subpixels, but the controller mangles those into 480x800x2 subpixels.

Aka Pentile RGBG actually has 2/3 the amount of subpixels, no matter how you look at it.
Subpixel rendering is not only also present in the RGB layout, but is also _easier_ to do.

And just google around for 'pentile yellow pink' or 'pentile checkerboard' to see how many people detect PenTile's artifacts. Specially at a (by today's standards) very low resolution handheld such as the N9.

Not on Samsung screens. But please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

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	javispedro	2012-12-18 , 19:05
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Originally Posted by pycage

Probably not because the Lumia 800 uses the same pentile screen. I don't know about the other Lumias, though.

They got rid of Pentile in the next Lumia and never used it again. That should say something...

Originally Posted by specc

Not on Samsung screens. But please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

PenTile IS Samsung.

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specc	2012-12-18 , 19:42
Posts: 322 \| Thanked: 218 times \| Joined on Feb 2012	#35

Originally Posted by javispedro

They got rid of Pentile in the next Lumia and never used it again. That should say something...

PenTile IS Samsung.

I thought it was Clairvoyante ??

Anyway, the only RGB screen that is addressable at each sub pixel is the S Stripe,and that is not even a "proper" RGB. So I have heard.

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	javispedro	2012-12-18 , 19:58
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Originally Posted by specc

Anyway, the only RGB screen that is addressable at each sub pixel is the S Stripe,and that is not even a "proper" RGB. So I have heard.

This is going offtopic, but by definition each and every RGB screen is fully subpixel 'addressable'. This is because RGB itself is used for color representation! If you increase or decrease the amount of "red" in the red channel, you are effectively controlling the red subpixel.

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	qwazix	2012-12-18 , 20:10
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Originally Posted by javispedro

They got rid of Pentile in the next Lumia and never used it again. That should say something...

It just says that the max resolution of WP7 was so low that it was possible to cram 3 subpixels/px. Or if you see it the other way around, with such a low ppi the only thing they could do to mitigate the loss of quality was to go RGB. Now for the 920 they went LCD which is an entirely different ballpark.

Btw clairvoyant is a samsung subsidiary if i'm not mistaken.

It's simple. You can't go well over 200ppi with RGB amoled.

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specc	2012-12-19 , 12:10
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Originally Posted by qwazix

It's simple. You can't go well over 200ppi with RGB amoled.

So the initial question should be, why do manufacturers still use LCD?

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szymeczek34	2012-12-19 , 13:57
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I guess it's cheaper to make. And there's less faulty screens made in production. I don't expect HTC or Apple or Motorola to use amoled. They won't change something that in the end doesn't matter for consumer, because 90% of them don't know the difference and don't care. Stupid person is a happy person. Just if you would show old Nissan Almera to North Korean people. For them it would probably be a car out of this time, modern, safe, fast, economical but we, who know more and have comparison will say that it's old and slow.

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	javispedro	2012-12-19 , 14:13
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Originally Posted by qwazix

It just says that the max resolution of WP7 was so low that it was possible to cram 3 subpixels/px. Or if you see it the other way around, with such a low ppi the only thing they could do to mitigate the loss of quality was to go RGB. Now for the 920 they went LCD which is an entirely different ballpark.

Btw clairvoyant is a samsung subsidiary if i'm not mistaken.

It's simple. You can't go well over 200ppi with RGB amoled.

Samsung's own Galaxy Note 2 is RGB AMOLED and is 260ppi. So you quite can go over 200ppi.

Of course, the real reason Samsung (ab)uses Pentile is that they like to boast their über resolutions over Apple ones, when actually the Galaxy S3 is ~200ppi (because of Pentile). Aka much less that the iPhone and even less than the retina iPad.

Samsung will argue that 200ppi Pentile actually looks like 300ppi because of human eye aspects, etc.
In my opinion, a true RGB layout at 200ppi looks much better than Pentile at 200ppi, because of all the Pentile artifacts. Compare the N9 vs the N950. Thus, saying that 200ppi Pentile looks like 300ppi Pentile is hilarious at best.

Samsung KNOWS that they will not sell as many devices if they concede that Apple has nearly 1/3 more pixels, despite the screen being smaller, so they start talking about Pentile.

Originally Posted by specc

So the initial question should be, why do manufacturers still use LCD?

LCDs, specially IGZO and the like, can be made with very, very high ppis. They also have a longer lifespan. In my opinion, both things beat AMOLED's color reproduction.