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jalyst	2012-05-30 , 10:14
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Originally Posted by lma

Or eligible by default. After all, the entire community believes these 5 individuals are valuable contributors, right?
Or perhaps we should put the awards to a community vote and put the council out of the difficult position of having to choose.

I actually tend to agree with that more personally....
Councillors could still nominate themselves ofc, as they're members of the community just like anyone else.
Except any councillors that aren't eligible, due to the conditions that have already been laid-down.

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	chemist	2012-05-30 , 12:09
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Originally Posted by lma

Or eligible by default. After all, the entire community believes these 5 individuals are valuable contributors, right?

Or perhaps we should put the awards to a community vote and put the council out of the difficult position of having to choose.

So who got most friends in the community will get one for sure?

Evaluating someone's community (non-coding) effort first would be more suitable and not biased by promises or personal relationships.

For developers:
If someone ported or wrote a program for his/her own deeds I care less than if s/o started a community driven/requested project for the sake of all maemo users.

My 2c

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kojacker	2012-05-30 , 12:25
Posts: 1,086 \| Thanked: 2,964 times \| Joined on Jan 2010	#33

Originally Posted by Estel

@geneven
Well, being ineligible was my my first proposition, even before election - at the correct place, where such serious things are discussed with reasonable people, i.e. mailing list.

To my pleasant surprise, 100% of feedback was like "there is no problem with councilor applying for device", and even few voices like "Councilors should receive devices by default, as without mentioned past contributions, they wouldn't be elected".

After all, there was 100% consensus, that submissions by Councilors are OK, and submitting Councilor should just step down from deciding about his own submissions. I've also asked qgil, and he haven't presented any objections.
---

But, *of course*, it was predictable, that someone is going to create mini-dramas about it on TMO Judging by Your comments for past few weeks/months, it seems, that You feel quite comfortable in ~~trollish~~ such shoes?

/Estel

You did the right thing, Estel, to reach out and guage the community opinion but it's a little unfair to suggest geneven is trying to create a mini-drama, it's just a viewpoint

When you reach out to the mailing list you're only reaching out to a small subset of the TMO community. So ofcourse when you post things here you're gonna get a lot more viewpoints

Some will agree, some will disagree, some will agree to disagree, and some will troll.. it's a way of life on any forum

I agree that councillors deserve to be eligible as anyone else in the community. But honestly I was a little surprised at the 100% claim cos Ive seen posts on here unhappy about it so, cos Im nosey, I had a quick look in the mailing list archive to get a feeling of the support you found there. From what I can see, there were 3 positive responses who agreed (quoted below), and the second of these was from from a councillor who is also applying.

Your original message - http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/mae...ay/005259.html

Replies that mention whether council should be eligible or not:

http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/mae...ay/005262.html

I don't see a problem with a council member getting a device if there are grounds for it

http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/mae...ay/005263.html

I don't see a problem with a council member getting a device either, but
they should not participate on the selection committee if they apply for
one.

http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/mae...ay/005264.html

I will say: it is perfectly reasonable to have the council members to get
one as a reward" for the work they will do (and most likely have already
done our they would not get elected).

So although there may indeed be "100% consensus", it appears to be 100% of 3 people out of the maemo.org community of 100s from a mailing list that is not particularly often used. So perhaps that's why you find it a more reasonable place

As i said, I feel councillors have the right to be eligible as anyone else, although at the same time I believe everyone should be judged on their merits - it's only fair. If you were to run a poll on TMO I'd say there'd be a lot of support for everyone to be eligible but (if you are basing your viewpoint on the thread you started in the mailing list) I don't feel you can take 3 positive responses as representative of the community as a whole though.

But i can understand it's tricky when you have people judging awards who are also eligible to apply for the same awards. It can be an emotive minefield and maybe you can't please everybody. So good luck with that

But as long as the person on the council is not judging their own award application, and their application is judged fairly by the other council members, I don't see too much problem with that

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Last edited by kojacker; 2012-05-30 at 12:51.

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	chemist	2012-05-30 , 12:27
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Originally Posted by Dave999

My post in this thread was deleted by someone

Is the it new hard dictator rules coming up? It's a new sheriff in town I guess.

I will nominate aenebacka for a n9 for the best/longest/fastest support of maemo/meego application.

Was me! I am no new sheriff, I am no sheriff at all. Mod for +2years now and you be glad not to get infraction points for such post as my "this post is just garbage" limit is dropped low over past months

Nothing to be offended but this is a some kind of official thread and no regulars' table.

@Estel_ thread became sticky btw

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lma	2012-05-30 , 12:52
Posts: 2,802 \| Thanked: 4,491 times \| Joined on Nov 2007	#35

Originally Posted by chemist

So who got most friends in the community will get one for sure?

Modulo eligibility.

Evaluating someone's community (non-coding) effort first would be more suitable and not biased by promises or personal relationships.

So they are community awards, but the community cannot be trusted (by whom?) to evaluate applicants? Do you feel the same way about the community council elections?

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	ejasmudar	2012-05-30 , 13:59
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Can you please explain how the candidates will be judged? Is this awarded based on the number/quality/popularity of apps created for Maemo/Meego? Or is programming ability ignored and only soft skills assessed?

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ivgalvez	2012-05-30 , 14:12
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Please read the Announcement, the Wiki and the first post in this thread. Specially the subjects "candidates" and "criteria".

I can't think of any other way to make it more clear. Council will judge according to past (no promises/future plans) merits in any community activity (development, testing, modding, helping, documenting, participating...).

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ivgalvez	2012-05-30 , 14:18
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This Friday, the Council will do a first evaluation of submissions and those that hadn't provide anything useful for the community will be discarded.

Discarded submissions, obviously, won't be allowed to be submitted again.

So, please to all that are sending self nominations talking about future plans or how much they love their devices, stop doing it. It's only time consuming and you won't receive a device just by a matter of luck.

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	catbus	2012-05-30 , 19:20
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The List is allready quite full and "ready"... Maybe few top-dev's are not in there Yet but i can't imagine that anyone new newbies can incept self in.

There should be much more devices to give community, from Nokia...

my 2c.

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	Estel	2012-05-30 , 20:51
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Originally Posted by kojacker

So although there may indeed be "100% consensus", it appears to be 100% of 3 people out of the maemo.org community of 100s from a mailing list that is not particularly often used. So perhaps that's why you find it a more reasonable place

On the other hand, maemo-community@maemo.org is specified as official communication channel, where TMO is not (!). Also, there were 3 answers, but question was open for few weeks already, and mailing list - where much more people are subscribed - was open for presenting any other point of view.

Personally, I don't think TMO is a good place of any serious discussion re Community - see all "future of Maemo" threads, with it 50+ pages and 90% of nonsense content. I like TMO, but for such thing, I treat is as place to announce things + eventually receive feedback - mailing list seems *much* more competent for meritocratic discussions.

Re other questions about criteria etc - don't want to sound harsh, but agree with ivgalvez here, everything is specified in announcement in the most clear way possible. call it autocratic, dictator'ish, tyranny or whatever, but here it is, and won't be changed - there was a ~month for discussion (and, even on TMO, traces to discussion on mailing list were presented on "Summer `12 Device Program" thread, started by qgil.

/Estel

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Last edited by chemist; 2012-05-31 at 10:34. Reason: Edited link to summer 12 device program