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debernardis's Avatar
Posts: 2,142 | Thanked: 2,054 times | Joined on Dec 2006 @ Sicily
#4071
The 7" Tab stays comfortably in the back pocket of my jeans, as well as in an average sized murse. Wait... shooting some photos...

EDIT:
Tab in my pocket with a landscape view of my b-side ;
Tab in the process of entering my murse.
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Ernesto de Bernardis


Last edited by debernardis; 2011-08-19 at 13:09.
 

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#4072
Originally Posted by debernardis View Post
The 7" Tab stays comfortably in the back pocket of my jeans, as well as in an average sized murse. Wait... shooting some photos...

EDIT:
Tab in my pocket with a landscape view of my b-side ;
Tab in the process of entering my murse.
Very impressive! How about a candid shot of someone making a phone call with the Tab near their ear! Just Kidding...

Actually, I see you've had success putting Debian on the Tab. I'd like to try to do the same but on something like the SGH I927 when it comes out. Are there wikis with detailed instructions on doing such on Samsung devices. Do you need root to do thiis? It seems like ppl are generally having success rooting Galaxy. Is this so?
Thanks.
 
Kangal's Avatar
Posts: 1,789 | Thanked: 1,699 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#4073
I'll post this here.
I see todays phones as miniature tablets, and its not hard to see why (eg/ Grid 10 vs Grid 4).

I'd place the tablets into 3 categories; pocketables, portable, and spacious.
It seems better to name them as Phones, Pads, and Tablets.

Pocketables are basically phones that are less than 5.0 inches. It'll give you a decent amount of screen-estate (3.7" 4.0" 4.3" 4.5") but be limited in many ways. The maximum size for comfortable touchtyping and a bearable bulk/heft seems to be roughly 4.5 inches for most people.

Portables are pads (think of a little notepad) which give you more screen-size and can do several things better/easier. But the experience isn't too different than a phone/pocketable. They aren't pocketable, but still extremely portable in purses, coat pockets, wide-rear pockets, car-docks etc. This is where the 6.5" to 7.5" size comes into factor. Any device that is more than 4.5" but less than 6.5" generally is wasting screen space because its not pocketable but rather portable however the screen size isn't large enough to offer much of a different experience.

Spacious tablets are real tablets (think of a large heavy book) which are supposed to displace your netbook and laptop you "lug" around for leisure and work. The large screen gives them the chance to offer a completely different experience to pocketable phones, a good thing, but still resembles the portable pads. So far they are appalling in displacing ultraportables for work-related activities, but this can change in the future (Windows 8, better QNX/Android/iOS). These are devices with 9.0" to 11.0" size and are meant to be carried under your armpit, or in your backpack/suitcase. So they are more portable than laptops/netbooks but not portable enough to be carried in different means. Any tablets that are sized 7.5" to 8.5" generally seems like a waste because its not portable in purses/large pockets or dockable, and still lack the larger screen for a differed experience.

Side note, people with large hands/fingers (me) and a spacious car dock may be in luck as an 8.5-8.9" tablet with shaved bezel might still be "portable" (not lugged) and give you ample screen estate to have a (spacious) "tablet" user interface rather than a (portable) "pad" user interface to really offer a distinction to your large handheld/pocketable phone. I've come to term this as a Padlet.

EVERYTHING comes down to your needs. If you need the extra screen for a more desktop-like internet browsing than a tablet is a must, if you cannot bare lugging around a laptop sized device than a pad is more convincing. If you are gifted and want the best of both worlds, then a padlet may be your thing.
 

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debernardis's Avatar
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#4074
Originally Posted by mscion View Post
Very impressive! How about a candid shot of someone making a phone call with the Tab near their ear! Just Kidding...

Actually, I see you've had success putting Debian on the Tab. I'd like to try to do the same but on something like the SGH I927 when it comes out. Are there wikis with detailed instructions on doing such on Samsung devices. Do you need root to do thiis? It seems like ppl are generally having success rooting Galaxy. Is this so?
Thanks.

You definitely need root. For a guidance to prepare the image, see:
http://www.mayrhofer.eu.org/debian-on-android

My start script is:
Code:
 export kit=/sdcard
export mnt=/data/local/mnt
export TERM=linux
export HOME=/root

export USER=root

export PATH=$bin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/bin:$PATH

busybox clear

busybox mkdir -p $mnt

#busybox mount -o loop,noatime $kit/debian.img $mnt

busybox mount -t ext2 /dev/block/mmcblk1p2 $mnt



busybox mount -t devpts devpts $mnt/dev/pts
busybox mount -t proc proc $mnt/proc
busybox mount -t sysfs sysfs $mnt/sys

busybox mkdir -p $mnt/mnt
busybox mkdir -p $mnt/mnt/sdcard $mnt/mnt/system
busybox mkdir -p $mnt/mnt/data $mnt/mnt/dev

busybox mount -o bind /sdcard $mnt/mnt/sdcard
busybox mount -o bind /system $mnt/mnt/system
busybox mount -o bind /data $mnt/mnt/data
busybox mount -o bind /dev $mnt/mnt/dev
busybox mount -t tmpfs tmpfs $mnt/tmp -o noatime,mode=1777

busybox chroot $mnt /bin/bash&&/usr/bin/lxde

#After exit command is executed clear it all up
echo " "

echo "Shutting down Debian........"

umount $mnt/dev/pts
umount $mnt/proc
umount $mnt/sys
umount $mnt/mnt/sdcard
umount $mnt/mnt/system
umount $mnt/mnt/data
umount $mnt/mnt/dev
umount $mnt/tmp
umount $mnt
(Don't remind were I took it).

This way, you run Debian as root. I'd like to run as user, but unfortunately I'm also way too lazy; one day I'll take Qole's Easy Debian scripts and take the needed code from there.
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#4075
Originally Posted by lemmyslender View Post
Yeah, I know. I've only found a few apps that won't run on my S7 (Plants vs Zombies comes to mind). However, if you read some of the reviews for the Acer A100 (7", 3.2) there are at least a couple "tablet" apps that don't work due to screen size issues. I'm sure those apps will be updated in time. The more I ponder it, except for perhaps some edge cases, it shouldn't be much of an issue. Particularly if we start seeing higher density screens across the board. However, I'm not sure that you can design a ui that works equally well at 4" and 10". 7" is kind of in the middle and may end up with a lot of things that work, but don't "look" good?


Pondering my last post a bit more: My S7 doesn't have the worlds best screen, or battery life (2-4 hours depending). So, I'm debating whether or not I don't take advantage of the portability of the size due to the lack of portability of the battery life.

Having read a plethora of reviews in the last week or two, it seems that 7" tablets will get 4-6 hours battery life, whereas the 10" tablets get 6-9 hours. Even though the 7" tablets have a far smaller screen, the size prevents them from having a large enough battery to get the same battery life as their 10' bretheren.

So, the question is: Will ~5 hours be enough to convince me to carry a 7" tablet around during the day? (light use during the day, lunch, breaks, gaming/browsing in the evening, gaming/browsing/reading/videos later at night). Currently, my S7 is in the barely adequate / inadequate range.

In the 10" range, I'm not looking for a notebook replacement. Running Ubuntu either natively or in chroot on the current hardware is probably OK with me.

With current trends (thinner, lighter) I don't see battery life improving greatly with the next generation of hardware. Aside from better gaming (I'm not a hardcore gamer), it seems to me that hardware is progressing faster than software that can take advantage of it.

@dan I know you have the 7" Tab. Do you take advantage of the portability? (Take it along and use it, or just take it along)
Actually, Plants vs Zombies works perfectly on my 7-inch Samsung Galaxy Tab. If there's a problem with running Plants vs Zombies in Android, it's not the screen size that is the problem--it's very likely something specific to the S7, otherwise why would it work on mine but not on yours even though they're both 7-inch tablets?

As for battery life, it varies a lot depending on what you're doing. Typically, I can easily go about two days without charging even while listening to a LOT of podcasts over bluetooth. (And this precise scenerio has happened several times now.) Are you saying battery life based on playing a video the entire time? Just playing MP3 with screen off? I hate it when these numbers get pumped out without details... but in my case, the battery life is PHENOMENAL and that's with Android 2.2--which was a pig of an OS for battery life, I can only IMAGINE how much better it'll be with Android 2.3 (if Samsung will ever release it on the SCH-I800 for Verizon). My Motorola Droid used to be pretty "meh" on battery life on 2.1 and 2.2.. but once I slapped on Android 2.3, the battery life has got to be nearly doubled or better on most days even with phone calls and data usage.

On the question of my own usage--I carry my tablet with me EVERYWHERE obsessively. I now use it, effectively, as my new N800 replacement to let my Droid maintain as full a battery for as long as possible by shifting all my heavy usage to my tablet. It fits perfectly in my pocket, so--why not? I mainly use it to download and watch/listen to video and audio podcasts, I also use it to immediately Google up information impulsively or to post/check status on Facebook/Google+ on-the-go and I use it to ssh back home to check things going on around the home's Linux server. I've also been REALLY lucky to have been able to use it during a two-day power outage when we had that massive tornado come ripping through Springfield, MA. Even while the power and our cable-Internet was out, I was still able to use the Flash player in the browser to browse our local TV station and watch the tornado news LIVE streaming all while my cell phone was free to make and take calls and texts and save power there. Plus--FLASHLIGHT! Anyway--there's my testament to having a separate 7-inch portable tablet. Big enough to share the live feeds with the neighbors next door... small enough for me to turn it off and slide it into a pocket as fluidly as a magician makes something disappears--and none of that without screen-size issues, by the way.
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#4076
Talking about 7" tablets how about this one?
Andy PadPRO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=9VMS9-w1crc

Android 2.3
1.2GHz Cortex A8 core
3D gpu (SGX530 ?)
1080p HDMI output
Ffcamera
Wifi (+BT?)
(GPS?)
~$280 --should decrease later
 

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#4077
@dan

Both PvZ and Peggle (Popcap Games) crash on the S7. So I do suspect that the the issue is with the S7 (although there are reports of these games not working on some other devices). The S7 has 800x480 resolution, so it's basically an oversized phone. I even tried changing the density to see if that helped.

The S7 has a 2200mah battery versus the Tabs' 4000mah? battery. I'm also guessing they didn't use the same quality of components as the Tab. I'm running a kludged together version of several 2.2.2 releases (none of which were for North America). I can probably get anywhere from 2-5 hours on "screen on time" depending on activity. Using GPS/Navigation 2 hours or less, movies 2-3 hours, browsing, light gaming 4 hours, reading at night backlight minimum far longer. Generally, it appears that movie watching time is the standard measurement of battery life (so I typically use that as a basis to compare).

One of my questions to myself right now is whether I would take a tablet along more often if I weren't as concerned about the battery life. A better screen and camera might also add some positive to that assessment.

@kangal

Thanks for the suggestion. This time around, I don't mind spending a little more to get a mainstream tablet. My S7 was only $250, but has a poor screen, poor battery life, and no support. It's generally not a bad tablet, very usable, just not a great tablet. Spending a little more to get a quality tablet, with some support, and a larger supporting community, and available accessories doesn't bother me. In fact, I'd prefer that.

*edit* That's why I'm not considering an Acer Iconia A100. It would be a definite upgrade from my S7 (dual core, 3.2, capacitive screen, higher resolution, hdmi) but it has what appears to be a similar poor quality screen, and slightly increased battery life. I'm afraid that despite the size, it would end up often sitting at home just like my S7.

On the other hand, the HTC Flyer looks extremely interesting, but at $500, seems a bit overpriced to me. At $400, I'd probably have bought one already.

I'm afraid that for the time being, 7" tablets may end up being an afterthought to many manufacturers, and end up with sacrifices to form/function, and remain a niche product. Unless of course Apple decides to "invent" a portable tablet in the 7" range.
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Samsung Galaxy S Vibrant, Huawei S7, N900(retired), N800(retired)

Last edited by lemmyslender; 2011-08-20 at 14:21.
 

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#4078
Hey guys more screenshots of HTC honeycomb have been leaked and I got to say looking very slick.
http://pocketnow.com/android/htc-puc...evealed-images
 

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#4079
Originally Posted by lemmyslender View Post
@dan

Both PvZ and Peggle (Popcap Games) crash on the S7. So I do suspect that the the issue is with the S7 (although there are reports of these games not working on some other devices). The S7 has 800x480 resolution, so it's basically an oversized phone. I even tried changing the density to see if that helped.

The S7 has a 2200mah battery versus the Tabs' 4000mah? battery. I'm also guessing they didn't use the same quality of components as the Tab. I'm running a kludged together version of several 2.2.2 releases (none of which were for North America). I can probably get anywhere from 2-5 hours on "screen on time" depending on activity. Using GPS/Navigation 2 hours or less, movies 2-3 hours, browsing, light gaming 4 hours, reading at night backlight minimum far longer. Generally, it appears that movie watching time is the standard measurement of battery life (so I typically use that as a basis to compare).

One of my questions to myself right now is whether I would take a tablet along more often if I weren't as concerned about the battery life. A better screen and camera might also add some positive to that assessment.

@kangal

Thanks for the suggestion. This time around, I don't mind spending a little more to get a mainstream tablet. My S7 was only $250, but has a poor screen, poor battery life, and no support. It's generally not a bad tablet, very usable, just not a great tablet. Spending a little more to get a quality tablet, with some support, and a larger supporting community, and available accessories doesn't bother me. In fact, I'd prefer that.

*edit* That's why I'm not considering an Acer Iconia A100. It would be a definite upgrade from my S7 (dual core, 3.2, capacitive screen, higher resolution, hdmi) but it has what appears to be a similar poor quality screen, and slightly increased battery life. I'm afraid that despite the size, it would end up often sitting at home just like my S7.

On the other hand, the HTC Flyer looks extremely interesting, but at $500, seems a bit overpriced to me. At $400, I'd probably have bought one already.

I'm afraid that for the time being, 7" tablets may end up being an afterthought to many manufacturers, and end up with sacrifices to form/function, and remain a niche product. Unless of course Apple decides to "invent" a portable tablet in the 7" range.
Ironically, I wasn't allowed to download Peggle to my Samsung Galaxy Tab for some reason--but I found a work-around while it was still free so I managed to "purchase" it for free on Amazon from their website, then went to the Amazon app store on my Galaxy Tab and installed it fine--and it WORKS and plays fine too. I'm not sure why they insisted that it doesn't work. If you want to look at it, let me know and I'll upload a video of the games running on my Samsung Galaxy Tab so you can see how it performs. My tab isn't the typical 800x480, instead running 1024x600, but even my brother Motorola Droid is able to play both of those games (and most games, really) without any problems. I think about the only game that seriously suffers on the OLD Motorola Droid seems to be Rocket Bunnies... which looks OHMIGOD AMAZINGLY FLUID and BEAUTIFUL on my Galaxy Tab. :P

I've been able to watch non-stop video for hours upon hours--I never ran it long enough to figure out how long, though... but certainly more then 2-3 hours (I watched TV shows for hours and hours on my 2-day train ride, for example.. even during the time when there were no AC-plugs available to me). I suspect Samsung probably set something up in their codecs or video player to make it that much more power efficient, since they DO bundle their own divx/xvid/mp4/h.264/etc video codecs and player (which is a PHENOMENAL player, by the way--with 5.1 surround support)!

The camera does pretty good, despite being only 3 megapixels (for example, a picture I just took yesterday afternoon with my Tab: http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-l6...640/11%2B-%2B1 ). The screen is EXCELLENT, too. I'm not sure what you don't like about it on the Galaxy Tab--it may not be AMOLED but it's an INCREDIBLY good LCD... without putting an AMOLED next to it, it's hard to tell that it's not AMOLED--thanks to Samsung's smart LCD TV technology in there (you can tell, from looking at the screen settings menus where you can see some of the tricks they're employing to make the blacks darker and the whites brighter, for instance, and some color profiling tricks).

I'm afraid I have to disagree with your assessment about 7-inch tablets being an afterthought, considering HTC's excellent 7-inch foray and Asus, Acer and others all starting to come into the fray after realizing that people LIKE the 7-inch form factor and how that size is something Apple DOESN'T deliver. (Remember that guy that I met at the Best Buy? He wanted a TABLET.. but the iPad he already had just wasn't portable enough.. he ended up walking out with the HTC Flyer. Just saying... I'm not sure that that's such a rare event.)
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#4080
PvZ and Peggle both work pretty well on my Vibrant (both free from Amazon).

Dan I think you may have misunderstood me, I think Samsung did a great job with the Tab.

If the Tab were going for cheaper, I might consider it. If I'm going to spend $400-$500 on a new gadget, I'd prefer it be as up to date as possible. If Samsung had released an updated version of the 7" Tab, I'd be very interested.

The Tab lead the way with the 7" size, but the popularity of the iPad seems to have prompted most major manufacturers to jump on board with 10" tablets. Part of that may have been due to the desire to use honeycomb, and it's initial lack of support for smaller tablets.

To me the 7" tablets out there are either over-priced (Flyer) or have cheaper components (A100) in order to be price competitive. That's the problem I see, I'm not sure a 7" tablet will find popularity if it is priced the same as, or more than similar 10" tablets. In order to get the price in the right area, you either have to use cheaper components or a lesser margin. Lower profits aren't appealing, and cheaper tablets may not go over well.

Of course, we're discussing a potentially niche product on a website for a decidedly niche product line.
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